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    Concerns and Worship?

    Hi, my name is Jamie and I've recently just begun trying to actively practice from the support of my friend who's been practicing for 5 years. I'm excited to learn more and I appreciate the high level of individualism and personal need, but supporting others and improving your community. I know there's plenty more, but from what I've been reading and learning I'm excited to begin the journey and fully realize my place and if it's for me. I've been doing some light reading since about the beginning of the year and I don't want to jump into this from an uneducated place or get into anything dangerous.


    I do have some questions and concerns that I can't seem to find information on, and my friend only has his experiences so I don't want to bombard him with things he can't answer. I'm new to reddit as well, and this thread. I apologize if this is the wrong place or if my questions can't be answered, I genuinely just want insight and help to continue on. I don't want to be the new person who's interested to baby the gods or like it for some ignorant, selfish reason. I know the flood of new pagans and witches on tiktok is... kinda smothering.


    So, my main interest is in worshipping deities, I've had the most interest in the Norse pantheon but I'm open and trying to learn more about other pantheons and religions as well. I don't necessarily want to work with deities on spells or magic or anything, I just want to have a guideline and have someone to adhere to? I suppose? I'm worried because I lack a lot of any Wicca or Witchcraft experience or knowledge. Do you need to be a practicer of Wicca to be involved in the worship of deities? I understand this is kind of the line where it's like... are you serious about this or is this just another trendy thing you want to play with? I absolutely don't want casually play around with anything like this.


    I've been concerned and want to be serious but I feel a bit overwhelmed with the huge collection of information out there. I'm also scared of the potential of connecting with and worshipping something that has identified itself as a deity but isn't, and due to having little knowledge of protection or like anything, I'm worried about that. I know that trying to worship or listen to the deities isn't a beginner-friendly task, but I'm not sure if my interest counts in this?


    So I guess my questions are kind of; Do you need to be Wiccan/a Witch to simply worship in a Pagan way, Is it dangerous to worship without the knowledge of Wicca, How best to find resources for worship only not work with or use for magic, Is it safe if you find it isn't for you to cease worship with no problem, etc. Also I would love specific guidance from those who are aware of Norse deities, that would mean a lot !!



    I know this is a lot and again I apologize if this isn't the place, if this is dumb to ask, or if it's a problem. I just really really want clarity and help and it's hard to find this information given what's available.
    I hope everyone is well, take care of yourselves and thank you very much!!

    #2
    Re: Concerns and Worship?

    First off, welcome Jamie. Next, I hope I can answer your question. Wicca is a different religion than Paganism. It is basically an offshoot from Paganism. You can worship any type of pantheon you wish even if you don't practice Wicca or Paganism. You shouldn't be afraid of worshiping a deity. If you feel afraid, then the deity might not be a deity. Usually deities reach out to you or you can reach out to them. You will feel comfortable around them. Next, worshiping is not trendy or casual. If you are devoted to a god or goddess, then you are devoted to them. It's not something you take halfheartedly. Otherwise, they can get really upset with you. I'm an Egyptian Wiccan and my personal god is Lord Anubis. I met him in my late 20s. I am so dedicated and connected to him that I got a tattoo of him on my right arm. When you find that right god or goddess, you will know it. You have to respect that relationship. I hope I answered some of your questions.
    Anubisa

    Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Concerns and Worship?

      Hello! Thank you for the kindness. I absolutely agree with not being half hearted or worshipping lightly, it's disrespectful and unenlightening. I want to properly and carefully learn and progress with the religion and to have something to like really give purpose and guidance in my life and I think this is the best route. I'm glad there are more people who agree with that kind of sentiment and care about what they believe in!!

      Thank you for the comment regarding fear, someone told me that it will be distinct if I'm truly speaking to a deity and not just some entity. As of currently, I haven't had any contact or noticeable conversation with anything, deity or otherwise. Do you have any tips or thoughts on being extra aware or safe if you do happen to meet or find something that isn't a deity? Have you ever had any experiences like that, was it okay in the end? I also understand if that's personal and please don't feel the need to disclose if you don't want to !!!

      I'm also in my 20's, though I'd say early 20's? It's really reassuring to know that the same defining experience happened at a similar time. I'm really happy for you and that you've found and have such an amazing connection with Anubis! It's heartwarming to hear your joy and devotion, I'm so happy for you!! I'm very excited and looking forward to hopefully finding the same connection and bond some day!!! Thank you for your kindness and information, it's appreciated!

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Concerns and Worship?

        In my opinion regardless of which pathway you choose you have to decide upon a basic or fundamental question. That is are you more worried about Right Belief or Right Practice vs established doctrines ? There is an actual term for it (Orthopraxy vs Orthodoxy) but at this point in time terms don't really mean much to deciding the answer to that basic question. Yet the answer to that question will actually prove critical in selecting how you develop and implement your belief system. https://www.learnreligions.com/ortho...rthodoxy-95857

        In essence Right Belief is what you feel and believe inside, Right Practice is what you do outside and the actions you take via rituals, ceremonies, etc. That difference can and often does impact not only upon the practice, ie whether you'll be RECON for instance and how you'll interact with the divinities or singular divinity you've chosen or has chosen you.

        Regarding divinities vs semi-divinities and worship. This one gets a bit iffy in my opinion. You might worship a god or goddess but said divinity might use an avatar to interact with you. They might use a sacred animal of theirs to interact with you. They might use someone else to interact with you. Heck, they might use something else to interact with you that is animal, vegetable, mineral, plant, or something in-between. Are you going to ignore it because its not what you imagine the divinity to be? Which also raises the question, what do you know about the divinity (ies) in question? Say a mare comes up to in your dreams, is it Loki? If you don't know his lore you don't know.

        I'm a male practitioner so people at times find it strange that Artemis chose me. That was many years ago on a mountain trail. So when I encounter deer I still think about her but I don't automatically assume that when I see deer she is taking to me. Doesn't matter if it's in real life or in a dream. You tend to learn how each divinity does things IMHO. Yet, they can also change up anytime they want to. Sometimes a divinity will direct you to other's that are identified with them to learn more about them. Hekate and Artemis are heavily conflated for instance but I was directed to learn about Mafdet, Pahket and Bastet because they are also conflated with Artemis. Same with Diana of Roman lore. Sometimes you learn a lot about people by who they are not.

        That change up is where you'll learn how they expect you to align your beliefs and practice towards them. But you have to watch, look and listen. But you also have to believe and make commitments to them. That is where it can get tricky in my opinion. Anyone can pray and make offerings to said gods / goddesses. They can be half arsed or full blown rituals and ceremonies. Will they listen? Will they grant what you request? To be honest it all depends upon their moods at the moment and how they feel. Mood wise they can also lend you out to others. Had Hekate lend me to Kali to assist a friend who was devoted to Kali. Nothing quite like appearing before those two goddesses in journey work.

        It also depends upon your status and connection to them. But for many that also goes back to Right Belief and Right Practice vs Dogma and Structure. Some think that all it takes is having a connection where your practice is treating said divinity like a family member and working with them. Other's think you need to have more of a formal respectful relationship, they are divine, they are not your friends or family. My witchy side is more Recon structured so to me they are not friends and family so I don't treat them like my mother or father. But I do speak to them everyday and make offerings & libations. I'm not Wiccan so don't follow that wheel of the year but observe holidays that were more in align with historic holidays from Hellene and Roman times. That and things I've been guided to observe.

        Connection wise you have to be aware of what you do. Some will accept you and let you go no problems, no questions or issues. Dedicate yourself to them then change your mind, seal it with blood and they say, "Fine" were done. Other's once they have you they don't let go. So you have to make sure if your doing a dedication of any sort your positive about it. If sealing it with blood double sure. But again that also goes back to your own beliefs and the divinities your working with. Different pathway's different expectations and stipulations.
        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Concerns and Worship?

          A. There will always be somebody who wants to tell you "this is right," or " this is wrong. " Listen to them, but be aware that they know no more about this stuff than you do. Make yer own choices based on your own experiences. This requires you to explore the world - all of it, not just paganinity (science, technology, art, politics, baking, interior design...). You don't know poop unless you know it in relation to other things, and you can't gain experience in anything unless you gain broad experience.

          B. If the path you are walking turns out to be wrong, turn left. Or right. Or walk a spiral, dance a jig, or sit down and eat lunch. There are a few paths where wanderers are told that stepping off the path leads to total destruction or eternal damnation. If you are doing "A" (See above) you will realize that such talk is all crafted from the most ridiculous claptrap.I

          Quick summary - there are followers and explorers. Followers learn a lot about very little, and most of what they learn is theoretical bolagna. Explorers learn a lot about everything, and what they learn they have tested, and found to be reliable.

          Or more simply put "Don't panic!" ( thanks to Douglas Adams, and The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy).
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #6
            Re: Concerns and Worship?

            and thanks for all the fish also douglas adams and remember your towel if nothing else.
            MAGIC is MAGIC,black OR white or even blood RED

            all i ever wanted was a normal life and love.
            NO TERF EVER WE belong Too.
            don't stop the tears.let them flood your soul.




            sigpic

            my new page here,let me know what you think.


            nothing but the shadow of what was

            witchvox
            http://www.witchvox.com/vu/vxposts.html

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              #7
              Re: Concerns and Worship?

              As others have said, you do not have to be a Wiccan or to do magic in order to be a pagan.

              Secondly, you don't have to be afraid of any unspecified dangers, nor of what you are worshiping. We polytheists worship all sorts of beings, including nature spirits and ancestors. These aren't traditionally called gods in English, although they are in Japanese or ancient Egyptian!

              For the worship of the Norse gods, a good starting point is Patricia Lafayllve's A Practical Heathens Guide to Asatru. It really is practical, and very down-to-earth and readable. For web sites, have a look at
              A Beginner's Guide to Heathenry

              http://www.heathengods.com/

              This site is a good place to meet others and get advice:

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Concerns and Worship?

                Hi everyone !! This was really lovely to wake up to and read about. This was a really wonderful well of information and I appreciate it.

                monsno leedra
                If you are likely more aligned with a Right Belief path, what would that entail? Would I know if there is a singular deity willing to let me know they're fine with me following them or something? I actually haven't heard of this dialogue before so I'm curious about where it would go. I absolutely intend to do my own research and continue to learn about it and these distinctions. My friend I mentioned did tell me about the messengers and what that could mean, I've been trying to keep a tab of things I think are exceptional or different that I've come across.

                Though that isn't what concerns me, I mean more so like things that aren't deities or deity adjacent at all. Like, negative entities or evil things. That's mostly my concern given my lack of knowledge on protection. I've been learning about and been given some resources regarding showing love to negative things, it was an interesting video and mostly concerned with Egyptian belief, but was still extremely valuable. Is there any further knowledge about this topic? I'm just worried because I am unfamiliar with any deity and their specific feeling yet and don't want to jump into anything that has ill intention. Of course, at the same time I don't want my hyper caution to make me ignore the communication that may be trying to come to me; like if a deity is trying to communicate I don't want my fear of negative energy force me to ignore the message. I hope this is clearer!

                I think how you described your relationship to deities is what I'm also looking for! I do want to be comfortable and familiar, but I don't think I could ever really equate these higher beings as like a family member or a genuine friend. Not that they aren't like !! Close like how we would want to be with friends or family, I just want to be ever aware of the power dynamic and always show full respect, and I think that dynamic is the best way to go about it, yknow? I really really appreciate you sharing your experiences and telling of the things you've worked on through your respective deities!! It's both exciting to learn of and lovely to know you've had those times and been through so much with them. Very happy for you and hope all is well.

                I do think I'll get better results with better offerings and more time spent meditating. I'm still afraid of letting in negativity but aside from a few semi curious things I've noticed, I don't think I've had really any contact with anything thus far so I feel safe in that knowledge. Thank you so much, I appreciate the genuine conversation and information.

                B. de Corbin

                Hi !!! Thank you for this, it's comforting to know that there will always be those who experience and work differently than yourself. I think that yes I'm worried, but there is a way the will feel and work right for you so I'll be okay if I have true conviction and dedication. This was really lovely to have a reminder of and I appreciate it. Your words mean a lot, so thank you!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Concerns and Worship?

                  gr8twisting,

                  Been trying to figure out how to answer this to be honest. Mostly the issue is because its not a simple black and white answer. Its not a matter of good and evil or right and wrong or even Right Belief / Right Practice as your initial question is asking IMHO. In part because the idea of Right Belief / Right Practice will be greatly influenced by ones personal idea of morality and ethics. Both which will influence your idea of Spirituality and Religion and the dogma contributing to them and molding your practice. Because of that even when acting within a group it will still be somewhat unique to the individual as to how they understand and incorporate it, and act upon it.

                  For instance I practice a combination of Shamanic, Animistic & Recon influenced witchcraft. I include certain divinities within my spiritual & belief structure which causes me to have some dogmatic influences. Yet my worldview also has belief elements that are strictly based upon "Beliefs" that are internal and can not be supported by any sort of ritual or ceremonial elements. They are strictly supported by my ability to "Believe" in concepts and idea's. Some idea's that might be culled from mythology such as landspirits or elementals, others such as the idea that all things are alive in their own right. Some Native American Nations would call this "Manitou" for instance. Some would break it down as Stone People, Winged Ones, Green People, Standing ones, two legs & Four legs, etc. Some places refer to it as Animatism while some call it "Mana" as a form of energy in all living things and some special people have more of it than others. But it is a belief that you don't have rituals or ceremonies for but a belief exists about it. Then that is just the tip of that iceberg.

                  Then you have the idea of right practice or right belief in that associates with dogma or structure and practice. That forms when the steps one takes is more important than what you believe. As a shamanic practitioner there are times I serve people were it doesn't matter what the religion or dogma they believe in matters, it's the steps I take and procedures I follow that do. All that matter's is I know what they believe and how they believe and utilize those things when I aide them in my workings. When I am called upon to be a Hollow Bone or Talking Stick by the Spirit World the spirits use me to speak their words or messages to those who've come to me. The issue there is I am told to give their message not to judge the message or the person who I am speaking to. I've had friends in the past who couldn't separate those two issues. They tried to save people from Satan for instance or guide the person vice simply telling the person this is what they were told to tell them.

                  One thing I find is there is no good or bad, evil lying in wait. Those are really human constructs. Every deity out there is good and bad rolled into one. They are positive and negative depending upon what you ask and what you expect from them. They can heal or destroy. Like nature, they can bring life or death, and the result and how its viewed depends upon where you stand in relationship to the action. If your one of the girls or nymphs running with Artemis life is grand, if you were one of Niobe's daughter's who was slain by Artemis then life sucked. Same with the Agathadaemon who aided you being good and the Caecodaemon who cursed you being bad. That Agatha was a Caeco for another person.

                  Like B. de Corbin indicate you have to study everything and anything. I have a BA in History and Sociology and love Geology. Occult means Hidden Knowledge basically and the world we move in is the occult world. But it also means we can't assume that everything is a message or that everythign is a messenger. I know my divinities use messengers and as a shamanic practitioners I know I have guides. But I also know that probably 90 percent of the time an animal is just an animal being an animal when i see it. It's when it's unusual or it goes beyond what I sense about it that it makes em notice it that it takes on other meanings. But I have to learn and expand my own awareness to see that.

                  But that is where you cross back into right practice and right beliefs and dogma and such. That's where it goes back to is the structure more important than the sensation and belief. Consider for instance some Wiccan practice's where the structure of the observances of the wheel and ritual is more important than the mystical event that the practitioner actually feels. Similar to how some Christian groups say Catholics are Pagan due to all the rituals and steps required which they think are more important than the actual feeling of the "Spirit" within. Yet both will say the non-believer is lost because they don't "believe" in Christ or God.
                  I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Concerns and Worship?

                    Originally posted by gr8twisting View Post
                    Hello! Thank you for the kindness. I absolutely agree with not being half hearted or worshipping lightly, it's disrespectful and unenlightening. I want to properly and carefully learn and progress with the religion and to have something to like really give purpose and guidance in my life and I think this is the best route. I'm glad there are more people who agree with that kind of sentiment and care about what they believe in!!

                    Thank you for the comment regarding fear, someone told me that it will be distinct if I'm truly speaking to a deity and not just some entity. As of currently, I haven't had any contact or noticeable conversation with anything, deity or otherwise. Do you have any tips or thoughts on being extra aware or safe if you do happen to meet or find something that isn't a deity? Have you ever had any experiences like that, was it okay in the end? I also understand if that's personal and please don't feel the need to disclose if you don't want to !!!

                    I'm also in my 20's, though I'd say early 20's? It's really reassuring to know that the same defining experience happened at a similar time. I'm really happy for you and that you've found and have such an amazing connection with Anubis! It's heartwarming to hear your joy and devotion, I'm so happy for you!! I'm very excited and looking forward to hopefully finding the same connection and bond some day!!! Thank you for your kindness and information, it's appreciated!
                    What I would advise is not to invite anything that you would fear. For example, you wouldn't want to invite a demon. What I did before becoming connected to Anubis was do some research. I was in my late 20s and I had a fear of the dark. What I did was do some research on deities relating to the dark so I could get over my fear. The first night I turned off my night light and felt scared, I felt his warmth around me and he helped me conquer my fear. Before I became an Egyptian Wiccan I had gone through many sects of Wicca: Celtic, Norse, etc... Once I knew that he was my personal god, I knew I was destined to be an Egyptian Wiccan. It may take a while to find which god or goddess to worship. You can reach out to them, but make sure that you do a little research. You want to know about them and that will help connect with them more.
                    Anubisa

                    Dedicated and devoted to Lord Anubis and Lady Bast. A follower of the path of Egyptian Wicca.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Concerns and Worship?

                      Originally posted by anubisa View Post
                      you wouldn't want to invite a demon.
                      Woah, not cool!

                      Jokes aside, I think the best way to practice is to read a lot, follow your intuition, and form your own thoughts from your personal experiences. No book or resource, in my opinion, can give you as much insight as your own experiences; that said, they're a nice stepping stone.

                      Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Concerns and Worship?

                        I'm going to strongly second Corbin's post, mostly because its stuff I would say too.

                        With that, I'm going to advise that you read three books...mostly because they are from three different perspectives with examples of things three different people have done as part of their practice, even though at least two of them are on radically different paths now than they were when they wrote those books.

                        1) To Walk a Pagan Path (I've actually blogged quite a bit about this book)

                        2) Circle of One by Diane Sylvan (this one is lovely and short written by the author when she was a solitary Wiccan, but one doesn't have to be Wiccan to get something from it)

                        3) Ritual by Emma Restall Orr (this one is a book on ritual, written from the POV of a certain flavor of Druidry and has a lot of guided imagery and things you can do, but you don't have to be into Druidry to do it that way)


                        I'd also recommend the bonus reads of Drawing Down the Moon by the late PBS journalist Margot Adler, though it was written about 30+ years ago at this point, and is quite weighty...its very interesting and still one of the best coverage (though dated) of the history and breadth of Paganism's development in the US.
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                          #13
                          Re: Concerns and Worship?

                          I don't follow any system. I have read some modern pagan books and maybe a couple of websites and found most of them useless for me.
                          I've always liked the actual myths (and try to see what they mean) and (accurate) academic sources like the history of the culture/religion and translations of poetry and texts. I prefer unbiased sources and I like to learn how the ancients lived and worshipped. Then there's past lives...
                          Another thing to consider is your personal philosophy right now.
                          Last edited by Guest; 12 May 2020, 16:55.

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                            #14
                            Re: Concerns and Worship?

                            Originally posted by ingridstjerne257 View Post
                            I don't follow any system. I have read some modern pagan books and maybe a couple of websites and found most of them useless for me.
                            I've always liked the actual myths (and try to see what they mean) and (accurate) academic sources like the history of the culture/religion and translations of poetry and texts. I prefer unbiased sources and I like to learn how the ancients lived and worshipped. Then there's past lives...
                            Another thing to consider is your personal philosophy right now.
                            Bolden mine

                            Past lives now there is a rabbit hole you don't want to go down to seek enlightenment.

                            There are hundreds of "Professional" readers just waiting to take your money and give you a past life reading. Almost as many as their are professionals waiting to tell you about "forgotten" memories of a traumatic nature that are influencing you today from either a past life or your youth. Then lets not forget about the Tarot reader and their past life spreads waiting to reveal those hidden nuggets of "influence" that have carried over and are impacting your current incarnation.

                            I recall when "hidden abuse" was the big thing in the psychology field in the late 80's and hypnosis could help you "discover" those forgotten incidents. Amazingly past life regression / recall filtered into the pagan / occult community shortly there after and it's been part and parcel here ever since. Psychic's suddenly found they could rake in money by going into trance, read the cards or contacting the spirits to see into a person's past life. In most instances a good reader can put more into the person's mind than what the person actually might think. Have done it myself on many occasions just to prove a point. Combination of power of suggestion and how memories are stored over time.

                            Not to say there are not true examples of past lives and recall of them on record. But never encountered any that are useful as a means of reconstruction of any spiritual / historical value. Especially that can be proven and validated in most instances beyond some basic familial information to certain families or some historical information of a very broad nature.

                            For instance I have what might be "past Life" memories I can prove are WWII era and I know the people died. One is on an S class submarine, the other on a B-17 bomber that lacks a belly turret so probably an A or B model. Can tell you quite a bit about both of them. Only thing is they are brothers but have never found a pair of brothers that match the criteria, nor the sensation they have a familial bond to me. Think being the family genealogist I'd surely have found that by now.

                            That doesn't even touch blood memories. What might be so called DNA memories I suppose but definitely carried down through the blood. Ironically passed down from mother to child if my memories are an example. I'm male but I have memories I know to be from my mother and prior to my birth and from her childhood. As I've gotten older they have faded (i'm 61 now). Had other memories that were probably from my grandmother but prior to my mother being born but no way to validate those as my grandmother has long since passed by some of them my mother could confirm. Granted not a lot of them but just a few that were more present during my youth. Of course all prior to my birth, or prior to the birth of my mother if they pertained to my grandmother as I believed.

                            But past life memories that is a slippery slope in general. Far to many turn out to be influenced by other sources than actual previous lives lived.
                            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                              #15
                              Re: Concerns and Worship?

                              Hi monso leedra,
                              I disagree. I found past lives to be helpful for myself and some others I conversed with. I learned how to do it from a knowledgeable person, yes I did pay and that person was genuine.
                              Some of the gods tell me about it when I ask them, too.
                              Past life study has been around for millennia. I offer it as a suggestion, not a requirement, if one wishes to pursue.
                              Last edited by Guest; 13 May 2020, 10:04.

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