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Thread: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

  1. #21
    Silver Member monsno_leedra's Avatar
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    Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

    Rhythm,

    Just my own personal opinions here but I think when it comes to offensive / negative spells there is a time to let your "Target" know and a time to keep your mouth shut to be honest. That usage really depends upon how your employing your workings and where your focusing your intent and angle of action.

    It's like if I was using Hex's or Curses then many times it is appropriate to let the target know they are being targeted. Their own "mental" state can be a great acting force against them. Heck, to be honest many times you don't really have to do anything because they will do it themselves simply because hey think something has been done to them. But it also depends upon the skill or mental level of the person you are targeting.

    Yet for jar spells and what you've used in them often the spell is not about actually attacking someone but about severing contact with them. So in that regard it's negative in that the purpose is to break or destroy something. Yet that destruction is more to destroy what connects you so its best to fire and forget and not think about it again. So discussing it or recharging the connection your attempting to break really makes no sense. In fact it can even turn the jar spell into a battery and pull it right back at you vice severing the connection between you. Sort of like a corrupted honey jar spell I supposed in that regard. If you've thrown the jar away you can't even undo it, if buried you can at least dig it up and break it, burn it and destroy the contents or un-create it.

    But IMHO a lot will also depend upon what things were placed inside the jar or item that is being used. Contents is also one of the reasons people tend to not talk about specifics of their workings. Many of us were taught to "Fire and Forget" less we get feedback or stay connected to our workings whether they be positive or negative in action. TO keep talking about them is to have them leech off of us.
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  2. #22

    Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

    I understand that there's broad diversity in how people approach whatever magic they work. Still, it seems just as broad in our community that people approach it uncritically and unseriously. It's something that I probably won't ever understand - and that's fine, these are just my opinions.

    Whether we choose to think of magic as a rifle, a suicide vest, or a severing blade...why is it that we aim it at our ex's? Our ex-boss, our ex-bf, our ex-so. How many people are praying to the powers that be for their ex to stub their toe while so many murderous despots continue to draw breath and are not severed from the people they harm? How many people leave paganism as a path, especially at this moment, when we need to be more conscious of this earth than ever...when their ex doesn't stub their toe?

  3. #23
    God in the baking Sean R. R.'s Avatar
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    Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhythm View Post
    I understand that there's broad diversity in how people approach whatever magic they work. Still, it seems just as broad in our community that people approach it uncritically and unseriously.
    I feel quite the opposite. Magic is often approached with too much care, even fear. Specially when it comes to "darker" magic practice such as hexing, cursing or simply put aiming harm at someone. It's, in my opinion, approached with unnecessary apprehension. As any form of practical magic, it is no more than a tool. Like any tool, it presents a risk, but magic's power being derived of the practitioner's power, knowledge and experience, I don't expect a novice to possess the means to hurt themselves in a manner that could present any real threat to them. Far from being weak, magic still operates in subtle ways, with a balance that can be easily disturbed and thus the effect nullified. A novice will most likely render any spell inert before any potential backfire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rhythm View Post
    Whether we choose to think of magic as a rifle, a suicide vest, or a severing blade...why is it that we aim it at our ex's? Our ex-boss, our ex-bf, our ex-so. How many people are praying to the powers that be for their ex to stub their toe while so many murderous despots continue to draw breath and are not severed from the people they harm? How many people leave paganism as a path, especially at this moment, when we need to be more conscious of this earth than ever...when their ex doesn't stub their toe?
    The prevalence of curses, hexes and such "harmful" magic practices are common in pagan paths often due to the absence of divine retribution or justice. It is up to us to bring justice in a spiritual level, and just like a judge can decide on the fate of the guilty, we often are the judges of the people (both good and bad) that surround us.

    Harmful magic is often derived of emotion. I care about the dear friend that betrayed me, and stirred up strong emotions in me, which in turns fuels the curse. But purely on an emotional level, that there's a dictator on the other side of the world doing atrocious things doesn't pull on any of my heartstrings.
    Emotional distance is a thing, and for most people, whatever happens on the other side of the world, to people that we don't know, and it doesn't really affect our lives much, they're going to have a hard time feeling any empathy unless presented with pictures and videos specifically designed to stir up emotions. We are often insensitive to pure data.

    Since magic often works out of emotion, we're hardly going to do workings in that sense. That doesn't mean we don't or shouldn't react to the horrible things happening in the world. That's were reason comes in. Reason and emotion rarely go hand in hand. Reason pushes to doubt and critical thinking, while emotion helps with suspension of disbelief, which is critical (pun intended) in spellwork, in my opinion.

    When it comes to the real world, I think a mix of both is always key. We might lean on one more than the other depending on the situation, but I think you're quick to judge the place that magic has in people's lives. Maybe donating to a charity or volunteering to a non-profit is a better way to help the cause than cursing the culprits involved.

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    Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

    Hello serena542,
    I agree with most of what the others replied. I do want to add this: I consider time to be a factor. In your first and third cases it seems like these people were not in your life for quite some time and seems like they were not influencing you so instead of flat out cursing them I would have advised emotional healing and/or forgiveness. For the second case you do not say if that person was active in your life or not.
    I am not freaked out whether someone asked supposedly dark/bad spirits for aid either. Not everyone imagines a "divine white light" or "highest good"... certainly not me.

  5. #25

    Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

    I can definitely see your point, Sean, about narratives of caution, and being overcautious. Particularly given the general targets, aims and methods employed. I certainly don't worry that hexes and curses will do any real harm to their intended recipients. In that context, it would be absurd to be cautious about such performative acts. Similarly, about the emotional nature of those acts and their scope being limited by proximity.

    OTOH, I think that it's easy to misread my comments in this regard. I have no qualms with magic occupying the place it does in peoples lives. You commented on images specifically designed to stir up emotions, and the ability of ritual to do this is well studied. In that we assign spiritual meaning to those experiences life is...though I think there are better words for it...thoroughly magical. It makes sense that our deeply felt experiences hold such a place and that magic as such an experience occupies that space. I'm not of the opinion that emotion and reason are truly separated in any meaningful sense. We feel the way that we feel for reasons, a person experiencing some emotion without cause isn't considered to be acting within their right mind. These causes are, imo, what drives us to seek out ritual experience in the first place.

    If we look at something like a jar spell as a ritual expatiation of internal frustration, anxiety, and pain - it's not all that different from scream therapy. By sending our experience out into the external world we reaffirm our relationship with it (and it's effect on us). Pain having a tendency to isolate us within ourselves this can be helpful. We draw comfort and the reduction of anxiety from talking out our issues, and private rituals tend to take the form of talking things out when no one is there, or when we might not want to share what we're feeling with other people, so much as share it with the cosmos - which we intuitively grasp as having a personal relationship with us defined by the narrative of those experiences.

    I simply think that having a realistic explanation of what we do and why we do it, and what it can and can't do is necessary to a robust and intellectually rigorous worldview. Ritual has an effect, largely on those who perform the ritual. More broadly on those in close proximity to a person performing the ritual as we effect those around us, and..as practitioners of voodoo realized quit some time ago, it can have an effect on others at a distance when they find the doll on their doorstep. The underlying ideology of magic as espoused is a treatise on relationships and effects. That the exterior world mimics the interior world, that it can be made to be as we wish it to be, and in this sense all magic is sympathetic. In this sense, all magic is emotional, but not irrational.

  6. #26
    Opinionated Rae'ya's Avatar
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    Re: Encounters with people after working magick towards them

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean R. R. View Post
    I feel quite the opposite. Magic is often approached with too much care, even fear. Specially when it comes to "darker" magic practice such as hexing, cursing or simply put aiming harm at someone. It's, in my opinion, approached with unnecessary apprehension. As any form of practical magic, it is no more than a tool. Like any tool, it presents a risk, but magic's power being derived of the practitioner's power, knowledge and experience, I don't expect a novice to possess the means to hurt themselves in a manner that could present any real threat to them. Far from being weak, magic still operates in subtle ways, with a balance that can be easily disturbed and thus the effect nullified. A novice will most likely render any spell inert before any potential backfire.
    I have to disagree here, Sean. A novice can generate the same raw energy as an experienced practitioner if they have the right motivation. The difference lies in the control and direction of that energy. So while I agree that most novices lack the control to precisely direct their spells and energy without interference, I heartily disagree that this makes them weak, ineffective or not dangerous. An uncontrolled, high intensity energy burst can certainly do damage, either to it's target, it's caster or whatever outsider ends up catching the scatter.

    And in a lot of ways, novices are far more likely to successfully generate energy for execration magick than other forms of magick early in their careers... simply because most people have high emotional motivation and less self control when it comes to harming someone that they think has wronged them. That doesn't mean those spells will hit their targets effectively, but that energy goes somewhere, and if the recipient (intended or otherwise) has low enough defenses then they will feel those effects.

    So to say that novices can't post a real threat to themselves (or their targets) is, in my opinion, naive. It's also unfair.... because if they truly can't perform magick well enough to pose a threat to themselves, then they also can't be successful at altruistic magicks. And I just don't think that's true.

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