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    #1

    Shamanic Pagan

    ok this may sound stupid but yall knwo that test on another thread "what religion are you?"
    well I took it and it told me I was a Shamanic Pagan.. I knwo you cant put must weight in those quiz's lol
    but it got me thinking... since i'm new to this path I like to keep my mind open to all the possibilities...
    can someone explain this to me

    what is a Shamanic Pagan and how does it differ from Wicca..
    cause Wicca has been the only htink\g I've really read about as of yet.
    thank you
    "Close your eyes, take 20 paces farther than you thought nessesary and just when you think you've lost your way completely.. you'll be there. open your eyes" Alice Hoffman
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    #2
    Re: Shamanic Pagan

    Honestly. I'm having a tough time coming up with many similiarities between the two. They both are a path under the Umbrella term that is Pagan. I am not a wiccan nor have I ever been so some that have experience with it may be of better help. But I can tell you what shamanism is about. In a very rough draft. (I'm at work so a super detailed response will have to wait).

    A Shaman is a spiritual healer and even then a clear cut description of what they do highly depends on the individual indigenous groups.

    Shamans believe in the spirit world and communicate with spirits through several methods like trancing, journeying, astral projecting, etc. We don't really have any Gods or Goddesses. We have deities that are spirits. For example, mountains and rivers are spirits (each one their own. There isn't one spirit for all rivers.) Our work includes but is not limited to aura cleansing, soul retrievals, various types of healing (spiritual and physical...like a form of reiki), doing blessings for our community in forms such as fire ceremonies and despacho's and much more.

    Shamans are also usually a type of medicine person. A tribe's doctor, if you will. This is not always the case -- but more often than not, it is.

    For a lengthy but very informative video I always like to recommend: Fire on the Mountain, A Gathering of Shamans http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...6257249602834#
    �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
    ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
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      #3
      Re: Shamanic Pagan

      I tend to lean toward Shamanism, and Juniper is right; Wicca and Shamanism is very different. Though I that there is a spirit in all things (a tiny pebble to a mountain, a drop of water to a vast ocean, animals, ect.), I also believe there are two (or one being split in two to help us....acclimate?...I can't think of the right word..>.&lt higher beings residing over the rest of the spirits. The way I see it, you may have a tiny pebble spirit, but what about the spirit of the Earth herself/himself? Or the spirit of the whole universe himself/herself? Obviously those would be a little harder to conjure/speak with/control/whatever have you. So, though I worship all the spirits from tiny to huge, I greatly respect the spirit of the Earth (our Mother) and the spirit of the Universe (our Father). Some may see the universe as the Mother and the Earth as the Father, it's all personal preference on that.
      Anywho, I'm babbling.
      Shamanism is based on the premise that the visible world is pervaded by invisible forces or spirits that affect the lives of the living. In contrast to animism and animatism, which any and usually all members of a society practice, shamanism requires specialized knowledge or abilities. Shamans are not, however, organized into full-time ritual or spiritual associations, as are priests.
      Back in the day, a shaman may be initiated via a serious illness, by being struck by lightning, or by a near-death experience (e.g. the shaman Black Elk), and there usually is a set of cultural imagery expected to be experienced during shamanic initiation regardless of method. It helps if you've been in contact somehow with the spiritual world at least once during your life.
      I think the only real similarity between Wicca and Shamanism is their exclusive use of herbs. Though Shamans use them in a different way, they both typically know, indepth, the plant they will be using for their ritual.
      Anywho, I'm still a 'budding' Shaman. I almost died twice and have found it quite easy to bring Shamanism into my life. ^ - ^ So, though I would not consider myself an expert AT ALL, I wouldn't mind answering any questions you may have, as long as I trully know the answer.
      The Past is our Cradle, not our Prison; there is Danger as well as Appeal in its Glamour. The Past is for Inspiration, not Immitation; Continuation, not Repetition.

      Its a long way back to Eden, dear. Don't sweat the small stuff.

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        #4
        Re: Shamanic Pagan

        I think you actually covered it pretty well as far as describing differences and similarities. At least without going into great detail.

        And my apologies for lacking participation in this thread. My schedule with work has been horrible this week. I hope to have some quiet sit down time sometime this weekend where I can elaborate a bit more.

        I might even turn this into the new "Ask a Shaman/Medicine Person" thread.
        �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
        ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
        Sneak Attack
        Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

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          #5
          Re: Shamanic Pagan

          Also. We had a Q and A session about Shamanism not too long ago. I saved the transcript to my google docs folder. Here you go. Feel free to review.

          Page Not Found
          https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Dcaibj1ILwWcdzoJN8vNlk4OXZPI1dmQGbwGPKZkizI/edit?hl=en&authkey=COmJouoL#
          Web word processing, presentations and spreadsheets
          �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
          ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
          Sneak Attack
          Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

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            #6
            Re: Shamanic Pagan

            Thank you! I try, but I can babble a lot which is why I try to keep things simple and concise. ^ - ^
            If anyone is interested in the 'new age' Shamanism, Michael Harner is a great resource. Though, honestly, I believe in researching everything yourself instead of listening to just one person, his website is extremely informative for the beginner. www.shamanism.org
            Granted, this is all the 'new age' stuff, so if you want the history and 'old world' Shamanism (which I tend to like better, though I incorporate the new stuff) please research it off the internet. I picked up some really old books in the library that just hit the spot.
            I'm gonna go ahead and look at the Q and A board too. Oooh, I just love this site so far! ;D :-*
            The Past is our Cradle, not our Prison; there is Danger as well as Appeal in its Glamour. The Past is for Inspiration, not Immitation; Continuation, not Repetition.

            Its a long way back to Eden, dear. Don't sweat the small stuff.

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              #7
              Re: Shamanic Pagan

              That Q and A was fantastic! I think the only thing that wasn't touched on was why Shamans tend to stay solitary and usually won't work on each other without an intense trust built between the two. A Shaman with his spirit out-of-body can be taken by another, stronger/more attuned Shaman. And I was surprised to see less about hallucinogenics too....thats usually the FIRST thing people ask me.
              The Past is our Cradle, not our Prison; there is Danger as well as Appeal in its Glamour. The Past is for Inspiration, not Immitation; Continuation, not Repetition.

              Its a long way back to Eden, dear. Don't sweat the small stuff.

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Shamanic Pagan

                Yeah I think I pointed out early on in the Q and A that my particular path doesn't include much hallucinogenic work so they probably didn't bother lol. I wouldn't know much about it anyway. I've never tried it. Smoking weed just makes you too lazy to try and that's about where my experience stops.
                �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
                ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
                Sneak Attack
                Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Shamanic Pagan

                  I've never done any of it, though I guess I would say I'd be interested in trying Peyote to see if I could get to where my husband's Native American blood had once gotten. But I've never gone worse than asprin, so I'm a little timid of anything that may be worse than meditating or dreaming. ^-^ If I really need an answer, and I refuse to use Tarot decks/Runes/other future related means, I will go ahead and 'diet', then meditate. I would not recommend that way either, but there was one time where I desperately needed an answer and couldn't concentrate enough (due to stress) to achieve any meditative state. It worked, though again, would not recommend it! XD
                  The Past is our Cradle, not our Prison; there is Danger as well as Appeal in its Glamour. The Past is for Inspiration, not Immitation; Continuation, not Repetition.

                  Its a long way back to Eden, dear. Don't sweat the small stuff.

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Shamanic Pagan

                    [quote author=weareoceansaway link=topic=233.msg2946#msg2946 date=1287123232]
                    I've never done any of it, though I guess I would say I'd be interested in trying Peyote to see if I could get to where my husband's Native American blood had once gotten. But I've never gone worse than asprin, so I'm a little timid of anything that may be worse than meditating or dreaming. ^-^ If I really need an answer, and I refuse to use Tarot decks/Runes/other future related means, I will go ahead and 'diet', then meditate. I would not recommend that way either, but there was one time where I desperately needed an answer and couldn't concentrate enough (due to stress) to achieve any meditative state. It worked, though again, would not recommend it! XD
                    [/quote]
                    Wise and responsible, eh? Well done!



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                      #11
                      Re: Shamanic Pagan

                      What different types of shamanism are there? I was once told that only men can become Shamans and that it had to be a divinely chosen ordeal. Is that true?
                      In answer to the question of why it happened, I offer the modest proposal that our Universe is simply one of those things which happen from time to time. ~~ Edward P. Tryon

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                        #12
                        Re: Shamanic Pagan

                        Thanks, Caliburn. Others have called me too much of a stiff and straight edge....XD I guess I just like being 'me' when I see/talk/listen to the Spirits and not blown out of my mind. But honestly, to each their own. It comes naturally to me, where some people it might not come so natural. ^ - ^
                        There are many different 'types' of Shamanism, Oshii. Most are 'male' run, but not all. The Norse used to believe that being a Shaman, and therefore a healer, was too 'womanly' and thus was given to the women of their tribes. In Native American culture, both male and female were their own version of a 'Shaman'. Many African tribes also have female or male Shamans. Though many, many people will tell you there are very distinct versions of Shaman that have their own name, really, in my honest opinion, there isn't. One Shaman will tell you how they do buisness and another of the same Path will argue a different point, or different plant, or different meditative way to do something. But Buddhists are considered Shamans, Native American tribes have their own medican man/woman which (though as said before they deny it) are considered Shamans by others....its kind of like calling all those who practice magick Pagan. Shaman is simply an umbrella term for anyone who heals, calls spirits, interprets visions, ect. Anyone working in the spiritual realm.
                        It is not always 'divinely chosen'. Sometimes a near death experience, terrible illness, anything that may have made that person touch the spirit world intimately and return can cause their tribe/people to view them as a Shaman and insist they learn from their present Shaman. Feeling as if it's a personal calling is another way. Simply being chosen because you were born with different features (white hair in a black haired tribe, blue eyes when everyone else's are green or brown, born with a sixth finger/toe, ect.) will get you an apprenticeship with the present Shaman.
                        I hope that answers your questions!
                        The Past is our Cradle, not our Prison; there is Danger as well as Appeal in its Glamour. The Past is for Inspiration, not Immitation; Continuation, not Repetition.

                        Its a long way back to Eden, dear. Don't sweat the small stuff.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Shamanic Pagan

                          ^ I like you. You do a damn fine job of explaining it.
                          �Experience is what you get when you didn't get what you wanted. And experience is often the most valuable thing you have to offer.�
                          ― Randy Pausch, The Last Lecture
                          Sneak Attack
                          Avatar picture by the wonderful and talented TJSGrimm.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Shamanic Pagan

                            Do you guys who practise shamanism believe that the under word and the up world (sorry the poor usage of terms, I just know them in Finnish and those cannot really be translated into English ) are true in the sense that they exist outside yourself or do you believe you're travelling just in your own mind when meditating and they are rather symbolic stages?

                            I'm leaning towards the latter, but I'm not denying that it couldn't lead to being touched with all-covering spirit in the world and therefore give answers outside your own limits too.

                            I'm not practising shamanism really myself, I've just took part to couple of drum circles and read a bit about the topic. Unfortunately I find many books to be too "stupid", you know.. Like they were written too simplistic and in a way which makes me think that the author was thinking the reader might be an idiot. And I don't like to be underrestimated. >

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                              #15
                              Re: Shamanic Pagan

                              Thanks, Juniper! ^-^ I read...ALOT.
                              To Pihlaja, once I get done with work, I will answer your question with what I have learned. Some of it is my own belief, though, but it is all based on what I have read and learned over the last year. Just give me.....about an hour! Sorry, but work calls....XD I'm sure Juniper could answer though. ^ - ^
                              The Past is our Cradle, not our Prison; there is Danger as well as Appeal in its Glamour. The Past is for Inspiration, not Immitation; Continuation, not Repetition.

                              Its a long way back to Eden, dear. Don't sweat the small stuff.

                              Comment

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