Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The Item, or the Idea?

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    Re: The Item, or the Idea?

    well it's kind of like christmas. is it about the pressents and food or is it about being around loved ones and the story of christmas..??


    It is MOST DEFINATELY about the... PRESENTS ;D ;D ;D


    ok yeah its not. its the idea.. but the items help

    Comment


      #17
      Re: The Item, or the Idea?

      I agree with the general consensus; Idea > Item

      And item without the idea is just that, an item, a collection of atoms. Items are nice, don't get me wrong, but they aren't enough on their own. I don't think Paganism or any of it's related traditions are about the power of the tools but about the power of the practitioner, sometimes expressed through said tools. I've never met a Pagan who doesn't ooh and aah over a pretty chunk of amethyst or get a little giddy about their new athame but I doubt those items would have near as much value were it not for the idea behind it.

      Comment


        #18
        Re: The Item, or the Idea?

        Dawns on me I voted but never chimed in....

        Item: for the sole purpose that a charged item left and forgotten about will still do it's job that it was charged for. You can leave a money talisman in your wallet and forget about it and it'll still keep money in your wallet. An oil blended for healing will still heal if you forget what you made it for and wear it (yes I have a couple viles I've had that happen with, had to remember what they were by my reaction to the oil). The same goes for transmuted incenses, have a couple I didn't label after creation and had to tell what they were based on what happened when I burned them.

        Before use items are charged for their purpose (to call or channel x entity/deity, to help channel y element, to be used to symbolize you, etc) you don't just pick up a stick, say "I'm going to use this for a wand" and start waving it around expecting it to work like you want it to. You have to treat it, charge it and seal it for that purpose for it to have an effect. When you bring it out of storage then it'll have the effect before you start focusing energy through it during ritual.
        -=Ex Ignorantia Ad Sapientiam; E Luce Ad Tenebras=-

        My art and writing http://khaotyk-artwerx.tk/
        (whole site is marked adult, the adult and gore sections are in their own section so you can opt not to view them, adult and/or gore stories are marked with an *)

        Comment


          #19
          Re: The Item, or the Idea?

          As it has been stated,The idea is greater then the item. The item is used as but a representation or a focal point for your mind. It matters little if the item was scrounged from a trash pile or that it came from some high end antiquates dealer and is touted as the real deal. I personally like to use found or hand (mine) made items in my ritual work or on my alter. Because I believe the powers/Goddess and gods want me to find them or in fact inspire me to make them.
          Gargoyles watch over me...I can hear them snicker in the dark.


          Pull the operating handle (which protrudes from the right side of the receiver) smartly to the rear and release it.

          Comment


            #20
            Re: The Item, or the Idea?

            Hmm, I want to say item just to increase the contrast but for the most part I don't use tools so it would be somewhat less than honest of me. Idea wins in almost all cases. I generally don't use tools and for the occasions where I do, there are generally multiple methods and multiple tools available to work toward one goal. Items have their place but if they don't stand for something then they're normally irrelevant to my practice. The exception is items enchanted toward specific purpose carry their own weight to a degree but that's more about the enchantment than the item carrying it.
            life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

            Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

            "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

            John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

            "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

            Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


            Comment


              #21
              Re: The Item, or the Idea?

              I believe the idea itself is far more powerful, but I am a little simplistic when it comes to these sorts of things - I do whatever works for me at the time. If I am planning it in advance, and I feel like I just have to have a certain tool, I will use it. It depends on your energy, your intent, and all sorts really. But if I had to vote, I would pick the idea.

              Comment


                #22
                Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                I definitely think it's the idea. It's all psychology. That's why I don't think ritual robes are silly in the slightest-if they help you to get into the mood then I say they're absolutely necessary. It's all about creating the right atmosphere, believing in what you're doing. The object is just a tool.
                Please disregard typos in above post. I browse the web on a Nook and i suck at typing on touch screens.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                  Creation of an idea to wield a tool is important. However, I can create that tool or call its essence to my hand without physically laying a finger on it. An example of this: I was discussing a Lemurian crystal that a friend had as a healing tool. I was describing the shape, the heft, the way it disturbed the air currents around my hand. It manifested right there. I could feel it. He could feel it. I was talking about my fascination with this object/item and it appeared in essence. It was the most astonishing thing I had experienced in the physical. My friend was so psyched, we started on a healing session right then on the patio of a coffee/pizza place. No one noticed us or said anything. It was a sacred space created around us by an idea to use this tool for his healing. Neat, neat, neat! So, I pose that the creation of an idea, such as breath being sacred. Exchanging breath with someone, is a mutual sharing of your soul, or can be. Without a tool in use, you can feel the energy exchanged even without intent. I believe we walk in creativity and what we will into being exists. That is why we monitor our thoughts and actions to ensure we walk in the best of intentions for ourselves and our fellow humans, plants, animals, etc. (The femme entity of Verlignus)
                  Love is the centre of all things. Fear is the destroyer of beauty and lives. Anything a despot can do to a people, humanity and community can heal and undo.

                  "Life is too short to worry about the little things. Better to let the moms of the world do that. They are great at it." - Madelyn Alt

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                    I would always say it's the idea because I am never any good at putting anything into words, Let alone the idea for a new item, and sometimes, aspects from the idea will get lost within the item if other ideas detract from the original idea. Now, see what I mean about not putting things into words very well?
                    "Otwarty świat; rany zamknięte."
                    - Open world; Wounds closed.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                      I think we should consider this: Ideas are the well-spring of both the evolution and refining of one's path. Any gnostic impulse can give form to thoughts, where would we be without ideas?
                      Love is the centre of all things. Fear is the destroyer of beauty and lives. Anything a despot can do to a people, humanity and community can heal and undo.

                      "Life is too short to worry about the little things. Better to let the moms of the world do that. They are great at it." - Madelyn Alt

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                        You can't have an item without an idea, it all has to stem from somewhere

                        You can have an idea without even having to think too hard about it, But making it into said item requires skill, Ideas are the only originality we have and an unlimited resource
                        "Otwarty świat; rany zamknięte."
                        - Open world; Wounds closed.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                          I'm very new to the whole idea, but for my own sanity, for me, it has to be the idea. Otherwise, I would have to go on quests for powerful items.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                            Well, I would have to say the item does matter. With few exceptions, I'm not sure I believe that most people are innately magical, or that we all have the ability to cast spells just by thinking of symbols and focusing on ideas. Otherwise, there wouldn't be any purpose for ritual- we could all just do it mentally. I think that power, whether it's an ancient ritual or a modern wiccan one, comes from going through the correct practice as much as having a correct mind set.
                            If you want to be thought intelligent, just agree with everyone.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                              I'd definately have to say it's the idea that matters (in most cases). A lot of the "required" items in books on Witchcraft tend to be rather difficult to come by, not to mention often overly expensive. I've never had any trouble substituting and making compromises.

                              I see the item as a representation of the idea, and therefore I have never held the belief that tools are absolutely neccessary in Witchcraft. I think you could successfully practice Witchcraft with nothing but yourself.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Re: The Item, or the Idea?

                                I prefer both, myself. Sometimes an idea is enough - and sometimes an object is enough, sustained by what it's been molded to do. But there are times when both are necessary. And I think relying only on the idea or only on the object sort of misses the complete thing. But that's just me. I like to switch things up depending on what's going on and what I want to accomplish I guess.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X