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Thread: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

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    Lord Roknrol's Avatar
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    This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    http://www.roknrol.info <-- if the site's down, just check back later

    Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's Relativity.
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    “It is not necessary to accept the choices handed down to you by life as you know it.” - Hunter S. Thompson

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    One with the Force ChainLightning's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    OMG's!! ROFLMAO!

    That's fuckin classic! Thanks Rok!




    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

    "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

    "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

    "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp



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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    "Can you envision anything that will change your mind on this topic?"

    That cuts out more than 50% of the discussions right away... Might just as well close the debate section...
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

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    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    But no one is actually that rational all the time. No one. It's an ideal that doesn't actually exist because people aren't nearly as rational as they like to think they are.

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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    It's a skill. It has to be learned and practiced.

    Nobody is as good at dribbling a basketball the first time as they'd like to imagine they are either... And even people who practice it constantly make mistakes, sometimes.
    Those who have suffered understand suffering and therefore extend their hand.

    I can't do everything, but I can do something.

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    sea witch thalassa's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    "Can you envision anything that will change your mind on this topic?"

    That cuts out more than 50% of the discussions right away... Might just as well close the debate section...
    pretty much...that was my initial thought. Just because I can't envision something changing my mind, doesn't mean I don't want to see what other people have to say about it.
    “You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom

    “We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
    ~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee

    "We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
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    "Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett

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    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    Quote Originally Posted by thalassa View Post
    pretty much...that was my initial thought. Just because I can't envision something changing my mind, doesn't mean I don't want to see what other people have to say about it.
    Yeah exactly. I might also be pretty firm in some of my opinions, but it doesn't mean that I'm not interested to see what others have to say about it, and it doesn't mean that I think they're 100% wrong either. We have so many people from so many countries here and what one person thinks will work for their country won't work for another. Like look at the issue of gun control. I'm pretty firm that I don't think having laxer laws in MY OWN country is a good idea, but it's interesting to see what Americans think about the topic because their laws on that subject are so different. It's also interesting to see why many feel the way they do about things that happen in their countries, even if that doesn't necessarily make sense to someone foreign.

    If you watch what goes on in the UN, it's not always rational either. You can "practice" it but reality is that different cultures (even ones that are outwardly very similar like English speaking countries are) will hold very different values and will hold them very close, and they're not likely to change a lot of the time. It doesn't mean we can't discuss our differences though, even though we may fundamentally disagree with the person from the other culture.

    ---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 PM ----------

    As for the idea that rationality can be practiced, sure. And you can get better at it. But I'm a firm believer in bounded rationality. Meaning, we can be rational a lot of the time but that rationality is always going to have limits and can falter, even for the best of us. It's a very common concept in business administration theory but I think it applies to everything.

  8. #8
    One with the Force ChainLightning's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    You guys DO understand that that picture is a joke, right? That's why the OP put it in the LOL's section.

    If you get all technical and analytical about a simple JOKE? Perhaps debating isn't going to be your cup of tea, either.




    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

    "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

    "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

    "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp



  9. #9
    Cannibal Rights Activist Ophidia's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    ^ Bazinnnnggggg!
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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    Lord Roknrol's Avatar
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    Re: This needs to be a sticky in the Debate section...

    Quote Originally Posted by DanieMarie View Post
    [/COLOR]As for the idea that rationality can be practiced, sure. And you can get better at it. But I'm a firm believer in bounded rationality. Meaning, we can be rational a lot of the time but that rationality is always going to have limits and can falter, even for the best of us. It's a very common concept in business administration theory but I think it applies to everything.
    This sounds like you're saying, "Rationality works for some things, but I won't use it for things it doesn't work for." Problem with that is that if people don't practice their rationality, their ability to practice it suffers. People who spend an inordinate amount of time saying that they don't have "time" or "energy" or "inclination" to think and reason, are doing themselves a disservice by 1) Allowing those reasoning skills to remain weak and 2) Discard reason (which takes effort) for guesswork (which does not). So those people that don't practice, WON'T practice. If it's "too hard", well, they'll just turn it into a matter of opinion and declare they've won.

    The word used in the graphic is "Discussion", which implies a much 'heavier' topic or conversation than just "hearing what other people have to say". It implies a conversation wherein someone is going to get their feelings hurt if they don't understand what logic/reason *are*. That's also why I suggested putting it in the Debate section, where it would more be more appropriately applied.

    Of course, like Chain said, it's a fucking joke.
    http://www.roknrol.info <-- if the site's down, just check back later

    Put your hand on a hot stove for a minute, and it seems like an hour. Sit with a pretty girl for an hour, and it seems like a minute. That's Relativity.
    - Albert Einstein

    “It is not necessary to accept the choices handed down to you by life as you know it.” - Hunter S. Thompson

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