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What's a religion?

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    #31
    Re: What's a religion?

    Religion is whatever we make it to be! To some it is a set of beliefs that they follow and up hold to give them a sense of meaning somewhere to turn to when they need strength. If misused it can become regimented force that can derive fear and war, or it can be used as an escape goat for people who do not want to take responsibility for their actions.

    I do not see what I follow as a religion, I much prefer to say that I have faith in what I chose to believe.
    When life hands you lemons make lemonade and find someone else who life handed them vodka and have a party.

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      #32
      Re: What's a religion?

      Originally posted by thalassa View Post
      What do you think a religion is?
      A systematic pattern of behaviour combined with and based on a specific worldview or belief system. Often with a social-interaction component.
      It is not merely the worldview. That is philosophy.
      It is not merely the behaviour. That is ritual.
      It is not merely social interaction. That is society.
      Religion is the confluence of all of these three.

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        #33
        Re: What's a religion?

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          #34
          Re: What's a religion?

          Religion - they have differences. Therefore can not combine them into one.
          But people do not make full use of their natural features. The man - a weak elements of the front - the tsunami, storms, hurricanes, floods. But he makes himself even weaker when they refuse to engage in self-development. Use alcohol, tobacco smoke. Someone completely "immersed" in the religion and becomes a religious fanatic.
          It's dangerous. First of all, to the man himself. He loses himself. And the battery - is fueling egregor, losing myself in general.
          There are also people - who manipulate others through religion.

          - - - Updated - - -




          It is better to ask the question another way, what do you know about egregors?

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            #35
            Re: What's a religion?

            Here is a personal definition that I often use :
            Social phenomenon based on a system of unverifiable beliefs.

            It's light, clear, and appropriate. If religion was the belief themselves, than each man how one day envisage a new thing would create a new religion, which is in perfect disagreement with the common use of this word. A religion must be a social thing to be called so. It's also necessary than this social phenomenon be related to, and justified by, a system of beliefs (unless it could, for example, a fan club) which are unverifiable, and pretend to be indiscutable (unless it would be a school, or a political party.)


            It is important to say that our concept of religion is very young. It have just over an half millennium. Before the protestant reform, "Religion", like "justice" or "equality", can only be used in the singular. It's the schism in the occidental Christianity than bring us to consider Catholicism and Protestantism as "different religions", and by extension, oriental orthodox Christianity, Judaism and Islam. That's why it's sometime difficult to speak about some foreign tradition as "religion", but my personal definition can avoid most of the problems.

            It is better to ask the question another way, what do you know about egregors?
            Cute superstition...

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              #36
              Re: What's a religion?

              My definition of religion is this; A literal belief in something divine with an accompanying code of ethics and philosophy.

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                #37
                Re: What's a religion?

                It's not a very good definition. Jainism, Theravada Buddhism and Zen don't care about divine things, but they have monks, sacred texts and ritual practices, so whereas they don't match with your definition, you can't say that they aren't religions.

                Your use of "code of ethics" and of "philosophy" discomfort me a bit. "Ethics" is not a synonymous of moral, it's a reflection about the basis of moral. If it's a code, it's not a reflection, so it's not really ethics. I guess you mean "moral code", but in this case, antic paganism is not religion.
                And about philosophy... This word don't mean lambda opinion ! It's a very intellectually exigent tradition. We can't say that fundamentalist religious have a "philosophy", because they don't have Philosophy. Just have a belief for no reason, keep it for no reason (other than conformism) and justify it only by itself is not "a philosophy", it is the opposite of Philosophy !

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                  #38
                  Re: What's a religion?

                  I like this guy.

                  But really...

                  The definitional literature can be organized around four approaches: substantive, functional, verstehende , and formal.Substantive Definitions

                  Functional Definitions

                  Verstehende Definitions

                  Verstehen approaches to definition have not often emerged in theoretical statements in the study of religion. Searching for understandings within particular social worlds is implicit in ethnographic and participant observation methodology. Runciman (1969) criticized both substantive and functional definitions by pointing out that social actors decide such matters as whether there is a sacred-profane divide or an empirical-nonempirical distinction in their world, and that, moreover, any two members of a society might disagree (see Weigert 1974).
                  Again, how can we recognize the social actors' definitions as defining religion ? Swatos (1990) advocates beginning with a very minimal substantive definition, a sensitizing concept we might call it, and then using the verstehen or "definition of the situation" approach to find out what the social actors do with what had been tentatively identified as religious. The preliminary definition could use the supernatural as its criterion, with either the transcendent or the immanent being supernatural.
                  Formal Definitions

                  (source)
                  Pick one!


                  ...personally, I'm still going with "the beliefs and practices centered around the manifestation of divinity (in whatever form), or analogous idea of similar importance."
                  Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                  sigpic

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                    #39
                    Re: What's a religion?

                    If you believe in the sacred then you believe in something divine. The sacred is the divine.Ethics are morals.A code need not be formally written as the ten commandments of the followers of Abraham's God. If one believes that something is right or wrong, no matter whether it is formally written, it is a code.Christianity still has philosophy therefore it is a religion regardless of how such followers treat it.
                    Last edited by Riothamus12; 27 Jul 2013, 18:44. Reason: unclear.

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                      #40
                      Re: What's a religion?

                      Religion is the selling of an idea. So says High Priestess Miriam when I visited her shrine in New Orleans. Totally stuck with me. Very wise woman.

                      Number five on the list
                      Satan is my spirit animal

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                        #41
                        If one believes that something is right or wrong, no matter whether it is formally written, it is a code.
                        If and only if he think that this thing is objectivly right/wrong (i.e. if he think that it's not only true for himself), then yes, it's a code. A moral code. But if there is no reflection, no philosophical investigation behind it, then it can't be said "ethical".
                        Christianity still has philosophy therefore it is a religion regardless of how such followers treat it.
                        Please, don't confound "dogma" and "philosophy"...


                        Medusa : Your view on religion is very superficial and unconsistent.
                        Most of the pre-christian religions don't have any "idea" to sell, they were only a "social ciment" in which only the cult himself (a social and political act) was important. (that's why philosophers can have their own ideas without being in conflict with the religion... most of the time).
                        Jesus "sell" nothing. He just speak about love, and let people follow him. If the only thing you gain for your ideas is crucifiction, can we say that it is a "sale" ?
                        A lot of people sold their ideas. Scriptors, designers, artists... Can we say that all their sold ideas are religions ?

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                          #42
                          Re: What's a religion?

                          Originally posted by Shunyanand View Post
                          Thalassa, yeah, there is a lot to say about the history of religion, the history of the concept of religion, and the history of the tentative for definite the religion by the anthropologist, and all definitions are partly arbitrare.
                          I use my own definition only for clarifying my speach.
                          'Eh, In which case, your definition is just as arbitrary as anyone else...
                          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                          sigpic

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                            #43
                            Re: What's a religion?

                            Jesus didn't sell anything? Maybe not, but his disciples did. Specifically Paul. And how am I inconsistent? I'm pretty consistent about my views on religion. And I'm superficial? How so exactly? I'm dying to here this. Go on. Do tell.
                            Satan is my spirit animal

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                              #44
                              Re: What's a religion?

                              'Eh, In which case, your definition is just as arbitrary as anyone else...
                              What's wrong with that ? All words have arbitrary meanings, the goal is not to make perfectly matching with reality definition (such thing is impossible, a word still a word, and reality... is reality). The "goal" here is just to have a consistent discourse, and that's imply to not use words randomly (i.e. : to use and keep an adequate definition).

                              Words are just tools (see Wittgenstein). When they have approximate definitions, they have vague meanings and whereas they can serve to do elegant and convincing discourse, but the cannot serve to build solid and really consistent speech.
                              I don't pretend that my definition is "the right one". It's just a very useful one.

                              Medusa : yes, you're right about Christianity. But the two other points still here.
                              And how am I inconsistent? I'm pretty consistent about my views on religion. And I'm superficial? How so exactly? I'm dying to here this. Go on. Do tell.
                              You take that very personnally. It's not about "you", it's about the definition that you use. In what this one is inconsistent and superficial ? I think I was pretty clear : Because it exclude most of the pre-christian and tribal religions (which hadn't ideology and cannot be reduce to the use of an idea) and include a lot of non-religious things (literature, philosophy, science, design, politics, etc).

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                                #45
                                Re: What's a religion?

                                So you still don't think religion is an idea people sell?
                                Fred Flinstone: Barney! I found this cool green alien dude. Let's worship him
                                Barney: I dunno. Sell it to me. Make me believe it but in a way I'll buy it.

                                I'm pretty happy with my caveman explanation.
                                Satan is my spirit animal

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