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    #1

    The Whack-Job Threshold

    Due to happenings in the 'Star Child' thread, I started musing about my own personal WJT - the whack-job threshold.

    I'm a Pagan (to be specific, I am an eclectic animistic, pantheistic, panentheistic, hard polytheistic Urban Pagan with classical Greco-Roman leanings and a studied interest in the African Diaspora), and for some people having a religion or spiritual belief system on its own is whack-job territory. I believe in reincarnation and
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

    My whack-job threshold (I love that term) is the Law of Attraction nonsense. Don't get me wrong; some of it has a premise tied to just magic IMO. However I don't feel that because I cussed while stubbing my toe or if I hate my job that the no-goodniks will bombard me for the rest of my existence and will trash everything I hold sacred. I have seen people take this to such an extreme where they are afraid of truly having negative thoughts. They also use it to delude themselves. For example, one likes to think life is great because she has a roof over her head, her new husband, and all the weed she wants. What she ignores is she's unemployed, lives with her mother-in-law in a cramped house, lost custody of her first child due to weed, and has constant squabbles with her mother-in-law. I guess when you see a glass half-full of poop it's still a glass half-full.

    It got so bad last night when I saw a business with a "just say no to negativity" diatribe I had to finally blog about it. I finally pointed out how creating an ill-defined, polarized world view only to deny half of it is so flawed that it can't work in any meaningful or healthy way. It also reeks of ye olde "if you aren't living like Christ you're living a sinful life" crud I listened to as a Christian, and most people into that want to distance themselves from Christianity. It also creates a sense of exclusivity that isn't healthy.

    So my way of handling my whack-job threshold? Keyboard raging.
    my etsy store
    My blog


    "...leave me curled up in my ball,
    surrounded by plush, downy things,
    ill prepared, but willing,
    to descend."

    Comment

      #3
      Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

      Erhm, whack-job threshold, where'd I put that blasted thing?

      On metaphysics, I actually keep it relatively high. Creation is a vast and surprising place, I'm more than willing to entertain a lot of theoretical possibilities. In theory*, I don't even mind the concept of Otherkin. Generally unless I consider your belief harmful in some way or think you're re-interpreting an entity with a semi-established mythos into something completely unrecognizable, I will probably not get to worked up. If I think your belief is harmful in some way or I'm watching you re-interpret an entity into something so completely different that my head is hurting from the number of bs alarms going off then I'll either point out some of my issues or try to avoid you. Depends on my mood and whether I think arguing is useful as to which method I adopt.


      * In practice, I think that if a dragon/angel/fey noble/etc is going to be bothered to manifest as a human for decades at a time then they have a damn good reason and it's probably not to angst about being inhuman in a human world on the net. Mainly, if one is acting like a human teenager that hates their mundane life then odds are one is a human teenager that hates their mundane life. A dragon/angel/etc will quit b****ing and do something to put matters where they want them to be.
      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


      Comment

        #4
        Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

        I've not met many people who were not a "whack job" in at least one thing or area, and, of those I can think of who aren't, I can honestly say I don't much like them - they tend to be boring, emotionally flat, and of below average intelligence.

        I think it's like Tom Waites says: "If you exercise my devils my angels might just go too."

        Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
        ...On metaphysics, I actually keep it relatively high. Creation is a vast and surprising place, I'm more than willing to entertain a lot of theoretical possibilities...
        LOL - on the subject of metaphysics, I, personally, spend a lot of time laughing. What most people refer to as "metaphysics" bears about the same relationship to actual metaphysics (a branch of philosophy) as a wet cardboard box does to a house.

        To do metaphysics well requires that very, very careful observations of nature are made, then, beginning with those observations, the philosopher tries to sus out their ultimate cause, or their relation to other things. Because a single logic mistake made during the sussing out process invalidates the entire system, the philosopher must, with excrutiating detail, clearly explain single step in the process.

        Metaphysics is the most difficult branch of philosphy. Here's an example of actual metaphysics - this is from a collection of essays by Bertrand Russel called "Mysticism and Logic and Other Essays." His subject here is the nature of what we call "cause and effect relationships:"

        ...In order to be sure of the expected effect, we must know that there is nothing in the environment to interfere with it. But this means that the supposed cause is not, by itself, adequate to insure the effect. And as soon as we include the environment, the probability of repetition is diminsihed, until at last, when the whole environment is included, the probability of repetition becomes almost nil.
        This is what I'm used to when dealing with metaphysics. What I most commonly see people doing when they "do metaphysics" is stringing an assortment of random things together into an elaborate house of cards, in much the same way that conspiracy theory buffs string together assorted events into a vaguely coherent time line, which can't stand up to even a primitive kind of scrutiny.

        It's mostly pretty hillarious.
        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

        Comment

          #5
          Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

          Point. I rarely use the term correctly and I suspect that if I were to start then I'd be laughing a great deal as well. As is, I normally laugh anyway simply because it's more entertaining than my other reactions to humanity.
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


          Comment

            #6
            Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

            Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
            Point. I rarely use the term correctly and I suspect that if I were to start then I'd be laughing a great deal as well. As is, I normally laugh anyway simply because it's more entertaining than my other reactions to humanity.
            I hope you don't think I was being snotty - we are talking about whack jobs, and I read what you said about metaphysics (which, by the way, I agree with completely in the way that you meant it), and I was reminded of all the goofy metaphysics I see. Not necessarily here, but around.

            It wouldn't really be fair to expect laymen to use terms in the same way as professionals, or to expect layman to have a professional's understanding of a subject, but it would be nice to see armchair metaphysicians spending a little more time connecting the dots up...

            I guess this is my whack job threshold .
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

              Not offended, I learned something new and I always appreciate that. That was more me acknowledging an error that I routinely make. My apologies if it came across otherwise. Publicly admitting to my own errors every once in a while helps keep my head from getting too big and in this case I routinely misuse that word to mean a number of things that at best only loosely related to its actual meaning.

              ADD ON:

              Your line about connecting the dots reminded me of something. I'm willing to entertain a rather large number of theoretical premises. Details though occasionally make me more picky. Both Otherkin and Ancient Astronaughts particularly suffer here. I don't really have an objection to either basic premise. However, it's one thing for me to say that there may be spirits that manifest as people or that alien beings have meddled in human history. It's another for to accept that spirits capable of manifesting as humans have nothing better to do than whine on the internet about why they should be something else or that aliens have interstellar capability actually consider some element known to us necessary AND mysteriously disappeared. Details like that move an entertaining premise to logic failure. I may dust off the premise later on if someone comes up with a less iffy scenario or I find applicable evidence but whatever precise theory I'm listening to is liable to be ignored.
              Last edited by MaskedOne; 08 Jul 2011, 14:14.
              life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


              Comment

                #8
                Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

                I'll have to think more on it, but Scientology is definitely at the top of my "whackjob" list. I think they're a cult, and they used to be banned in this country for being a cult but they're powerful enough that they managed to get the ban lifted. Still, they're always teetering on the edge of "cult" and not being allowed to officially operate. PS it's not the beliefs part of the cult that I have a problem with (and same with the government), it's the financial extortion and extreme control over their members. This kind of cult activity has been declared illegal by the German government, though unfortunately the church of scientology has managed to weasel out of it (for now).

                Also, the whole "natural is better" mentality. I get it a LOT in Berlin, and often it's sooooo hypocritical. Like, people will buy organic products packaged more heavily than non-organic ones, which is way more harmful in the long run than pesticides (but try convincing people of that in a country where the packaging industry is actually pretty large and has clearly won). Or people who INSIST on using natural sponges, even though use of such things actually helps deplete them from the ocean. Also included in this are people who think that pot is totally safe because it's natural (Um, it's not....it has health side effects), and people who nag me about being on the pill because taking hormones is "unnatural." The latter is VERY VERY common in Berlin, but I have a condition people! And NO MY CONDITION IS NOT FURTHERED BY MY BODY BEING TAMPERED WITH THROUGH THE PILL!!!!!!!!!! I wasn't on the pill until I was 18 and I struggled long before! I could go on and on with examples but I'll just get angrier.
                Last edited by DanieMarie; 08 Jul 2011, 22:10.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

                  *cracks out the list
                  New Agers with their auras and crystal balls and scents. You all smell like Patchouli and if your name isn't Peter Murphy you have no business smelling like that.
                  Fundamentalist Christians who believe there was an actual Adam and an Eve.
                  Terrorists
                  Conspiracy theorists
                  Canadians who live out too near the woods (past folks will know who I am referencing and fits the conspiracy And Pagan criteria all in one)
                  Feminists
                  Devil worshipers


                  I don't think I have a threshold though. I usually just call them out right out of the gate. Which might have been what happened to the missing posts in the Star Children thread. My tolerance has adhd I guess.
                  Satan is my spirit animal

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

                    I'm with you on extreme feminism, but I don't think it's fair to lump all feminism under one category....

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

                      Feminists? Please define what you are using that word to refer to. Do you mean man-haters, or do you mean women who believe they should earn equal pay for equal work, have the right to vote/ get a higher education, and have credit in their own names?
                      I think I'm older than a lot of members here, and my definitions may be "outdated", or "the original" depending on how you look at it.

                      I guess my WJT is women who want ALL women to retreat into the 1950's, simply because THEY want to. I don't mind having Donna Reed for a neighbor - it's a free choice of lifestyle which is what I fought for in my youth. I was never anti-housewife - in fact I think it's a pretty good job if you can get it! I do all that stuff as it is, plus pay the bills, so it'd be a reduction in labor for me.
                      Last edited by Hawkfeathers; 09 Jul 2011, 03:27.
                      sigpic
                      Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

                        Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
                        Feminists? Please define what you are using that word to refer to. Do you mean man-haters, or do you mean women who believe they should earn equal pay for equal work, have the right to vote/ get a higher education, and have credit in their own names?
                        I think I'm older than a lot of members here, and my definitions may be "outdated", or "the original" depending on how you look at it.

                        I guess my WJT is women who want ALL women to retreat into the 1950's, simply because THEY want to. I don't mind having Donna Reed for a neighbor - it's a free choice of lifestyle which is what I fought for in my youth. I was never anti-housewife - in fact I think it's a pretty good job if you can get it! I do all that stuff as it is, plus pay the bills, so it'd be a reduction in labor for me.
                        Yeah I agree. It's about choice. And I think that goes for men too. If a family can afford to have the husband stay home and he wants to do that, why should he be made to feel emasculated? It's totally unfair.

                        I have to say, I wasn't quite so much of a vocal feminist until I moved to Germany. And I didn't really understand the difference between being an extremist man-hater and the more active but silent majority trying to earn true equality in society. It's true that men and women are different in ways, but they should have equal access. Here we are below the EU and OECD average for women in high up places, and it's embarrassing for the 4th largest economy in the world, and people are so effing ignorant about it too, like there are men quoted as saying "Sure, women can work, but they just can't cut it in the board room." We may get a quota system soon, and as much as I really didn't want it to come to that, it's just seeming to be impossible to break down the pure ignorance that a lot of the business leaders in this country have about women. Even outside of higher positions, you still get problems. Work and especially networking is still very much a "boys club." That's why I got so upset a while back at that story of the bonus trip to the brothel. I don't think people could understand it not living here, but that's just a symbol of the attitudes in the workplace...it's a men's game, and if you don't play like a boy, you don't get ahead.
                        Studying business, I also feel more "feminist." It really bothers me how "male" ideals are the "right" ideals, but "female" strengths such as communication and collaboration, which are equally as important in business (especially in this century) take a back seat. I see this even stronger here. In Canada I feel the playing field is much, much more equal than here in Germany.

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

                          Let's see... mine is...

                          Abrahamic BS... The kind of: "Only the scriuptures are right!"
                          Man/woman slayers without honor and proper purpose... like the Pagan slaying by the Church.
                          Low imagination people...
                          Technological ignorants...
                          People who says everything should be owned...
                          People who says everything lasts forever... excluding death.
                          People who do not like nature... that includes the woods (sarcastic eye-blink to someone I know, not to be taken seriously).
                          Last edited by Taiga Pagan; 09 Jul 2011, 04:39.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

                            Originally posted by Taiga Pagan View Post
                            Let's see... mine is...

                            Abrahamic BS... The kind of: "Only the scriuptures are right!"
                            LOL I once told someone a little about my beliefs and he immediately started quoting scripture to me to "prove me wrong". I said, If you chew gum in public in Singapore it's a crime, but we're not in Singapore. The same laws do not apply everywhere.

                            He didn't get it.
                            sigpic
                            Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: The Whack-Job Threshold

                              Originally posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
                              LOL I once told someone a little about my beliefs and he immediately started quoting scripture to me to "prove me wrong". I said, If you chew gum in public in Singapore it's a crime, but we're not in Singapore. The same laws do not apply everywhere.

                              He didn't get it.
                              What happens in cases like this is that the person making the statement is starting with a base assumption (that the Christians Scriptures are infallibly correct and everything which disagrees with them is, therefore, wrong) which is different than yours. You can argue with someone like this until you turn smurf blue, but you can't win - when two people have different basic assumptions they may as well be speaking different languages.

                              The only way you can get that other person to see your point would be to change his/her base assumptions, but, unless you have a lot of time, a lot of patience, a lot of energy, or use torture, attempting to change something as deeply embedded as a basic assumption (which is actually an emotionallly neutral term for "prejudice") is a waste of your time.

                              If it entertains you, argue. But don't expect much in the way of change. In fact, neither person will be changed much from the conversation.
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                              Comment

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