At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

[Thjoth]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14259356

Words fail me. Indications seem to be that it was far-right/neo-nazi related.

Most of the casualties are apparently children (well, teenagers aged 14-19) from a summer camp outside of Oslo.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

It's terrifying stuff - Norway isn't a country one associates with terrorist attacks, and this was particularly horrible since the attacker at the children';s camp was dressed as a policeman and told children to 'come here' before shooting them. Tragic and shocking.

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

The most recent updates suggest the dead number over ninety and rising.... that both attacks were by the same individual, and that he was captured alive.
Still cannot get my head around this.

---------- Post added at 11:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:24 AM ----------

The most recent updates suggest the dead number over ninety and rising.... that both attacks were by the same individual, and that he was captured alive.
Still cannot get my head around this.

[DanieMarie]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

I definitely feel like, "What did NORWAY do to anybody?" It hits close to home because it feels like someone attacking Canada. They're such a peaceful country. And who kills children?

So the explosion in Oslo WAS a terror attack then? We weren't sure....we heard about it right away at work because one of the girls in our office is dating a Norwegian who works in Oslo nearby, but I had my suspicions.

The far right on this continent is starting to scare me. Luckily Germany is actually one of the least hit by this disturbing sway in politics (I think that the Nazi era was near enough and Germans haven't forgotten it), but I see what's happening in France and even Sweden and I just don't think it's good.

[Thjoth]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

Don't forget that Denmark seems to be swinging that direction as well. The only ones in Northern Europe that were really free of this crap were Norway and Finland. I would still say that Norway is free of the far-right, just by virtue of the fact that this incident seems to have been carried out by a lone madman. Even so, I would say that anyone on the right in Norway is going to have one hell of a time getting elected for the next few decades due to this.

You would think that the 62,000,000 people that died during WWII would be enough to keep extremists from even existing, at least for a while, but one thing that's special about humanity in general is our ability to completely forget things almost immediately after they happen. The fact that Germany still remembers is amazing, although virtually the entire country being reduced to smoldering rubble probably etched itself into everyone's brains a little more firmly than usual.

This is one reason why I study what I do; the power to make people remember. Limited though it may be, every little bit helps.

[DanieMarie]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

I wouldn't say they're free from it at all. They've had less problems in recent years but they had HUGE HUGE problems with neo-nazis and still do. Same with Finland.

Now, that's not to say that they're like France and those parties actually have a chance to get elected. It's more like Germany, where support for the political parties is minor and the far-righters consist more of a very small but destructive and vocal group of people who really only have a loose grasp on politics (same with the far-left in both places as well). But I still wouldn't say that it's "free from trouble from far-right factions." That's very far from the truth.

As for Germany I think East Germany had a lot to do with it. The War divided the country politically for decades and reunification only happened 20 years ago. It's especially clear in Berlin where there are still ruined buildings everywhere, some left as memorials and some simply never got repaired because there wasn't the money in the East (though these are getting less common as time goes by). Until about 14 years ago Potsdamer Platz was a wasteland and that's right in the centre of the city! We still get extreme factions though, especially in Berlin. You get neo-nazi youth in the East who grew up in the East and swung the other way and often encite racial violence in the far east part of the city (luckily nowhere near me), and you get the far-lefters who see capitalism as an extension of the Nazi party and smash bank and shop windows, burn cars and rob tourists (though this is less common). I can't decide which I hate more. Luckily their actual politics are very loose and disorganized and they don't tend to vote or have enough numbers to get a seat (even in our representational system, you have to get 5% of the vote to get a seat). I really think that this sort of thing is getting more and more common in ALL European countries. There's a lot of tension right now that I think is fueling it. Years of poor immigration policy has left the more ignorant looking to the far right (I guess it's much easier for some people to hate than to think of logical ways to solve the problem), and financial tensions due to the Euro crisis have left a lot of resentment that drive people both ways. Nowhere is exempt, though luckily some places like here and Norway have little -actual- political following. What really does scare me is countries like France and the Netherlands, which do.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

One more reason to regret reading the newspaper...

It's odd to me (I guess because I don't know much about the country) that Finland would have a problem with neo-Nazis. It's true that, in a rough sense, they were allies of the Nazis - in their continuing war against the Russians, but they weren't "full" allies. They refused to carry their fighting beyond the land which they reclaimed from the Russians, and they also flat out refused the Nazi demand that they export their Jewish population to the camps.

They seem to have behaved in a fair and honorable manner, despite the fact that they were forced into an uneasy alliance with the Nazis - I've always admired the country for that.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

It's heartbreaking. Someone on the news said the camp was for "future leaders" of the country and the shooter did what he did because he felt the country should be led differently. They also said Norway has no death penalty and that the most jail time he can get is 21 years. I haven't checked into that to see if it's true.

[DanieMarie]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

It's true. It was the hot topic at work today. But luckily they can also extend it by 5 years at a time up to life if they feel he hasn't been "rehabilitated."

[Monk]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

I read the story in the paper this morning and I still feel numb. I will never understand the people that do this type of thing, it's just more pure hate than my mind can comprehend.

My thoughts and prayers go out to all the family's touched by this idiot's (we never seem to run short of them) actions.

[FantasyWitch]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

Did you see that Norway has closed the trial because they felt he would use it as a platform for his political ideas? Good on Norway. X

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

Did you see that Norway has closed the trial because they felt he would use it as a platform for his political ideas? Good on Norway. X

Interesting - I wonder if the USA would do that - there'd be all sorts of "free speech" issues.

[MaskedOne]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

I don't know. I'm pretty sure we've closed courtrooms in the past. There's a difference between protecting speech and guaranteeing the right to use our court systems to convey your message. There'd be little to stop him from writing a book in prison but it might be possible to close a court room somewhat (booting video cameras yes but there will be journalists in the room taking notes most likely) on such a guy. I won't bet money on it but I wouldn't be shocked if a number of judges in the US would have banned cameras for this type of case.

[Hawkfeathers]

Re: At leat 80 dead in terror attacks in Norway

True. I hope his "message" has been perceived as wrong enough to drive some people away from that line of thinking, who may have been heading towards it.