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**Dez** · 16 Aug 2011, 07:15

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

Interesting...she strikes me as a bit coo coo myself, but compared to someone like my SIL, I'm downright "careless".

The one exception I'd make is the contraption for babies on flights. Lap babies are in a lot of danger if something should go wrong. Personally, it makes more sense to me to buy them a damned ticket and use their car seat then buy a completely different contraption, though.

**thalassa** · 16 Aug 2011, 08:06

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

I dunno, I rode my bike all over town (of 48,000 people) and stayed home by myself before/after school at 10--now, in many states (including my own) that will get you (at least) a DCFS visit. It just seems ridiculous to shelter our kids to the point of...well, honestly, to the point of negligence--a child that is so overprotected is no better off than a child left entirely to their own devices (and really, probably worse off once they *do* end up in the real world).

I think what bothers me about the actually FRK (because I don't want to keep typing it out), is that you can go overboard the opposite way as well...though I think there is a case to be made that she's been pushed into that hole from the media attention (I saw an early interview with her several years ago, and it wasn't that *out there* in attitude the way some of her posts seem to me now). I mean..."free range" needs to be age appropriate, developmentally appropriate, location appropriate and activity appropriate, but by the same token if we *don't* push our kids to do things themselves and try new (and even "dangerous") things, I think it the long run we are screwing them up (and wasting a shit ton of money on MADE IN CHINA cheap pieces of crap for the illusion of greater security).

Originally posted by DeseretRose View Post

The one exception I'd make is the contraption for babies on flights. Lap babies are in a lot of danger if something should go wrong. Personally, it makes more sense to me to buy them a damned ticket and use their car seat then buy a completely different contraption, though.

Especially since it isn't rated for use for the most statistically risky parts of the flight anyhow...

**Dez** · 16 Aug 2011, 08:36

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

You know what I think a big part of the difference is, Thal? Your family, your mom in particular, strike me as vey sensible balanced people.

My parents would go from smothering to abandoning with little middle ground. I was rarely allowed to play at other kids homes because of their fears of abuse, yet by the time I was 10 they'd leave me in charge of my brothers (5 and 7 years old!) for hours at a time. Alone. By the time I was 14 they left us alone for an entire week. Looking back as an adult that was abusive to all of us, and placed me in a position where even as adults my brothers still resent the force I resorted to in order to mantain order. It honestly would have been kinder if some neighbor had called family services and they'd discovered what all was going on.

**thalassa** · 16 Aug 2011, 09:25

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

Originally posted by DeseretRose View Post

My parents would go from smothering to abandoning with little middle ground. I was rarely allowed to play at other kids homes because of their fears of abuse, yet by the time I was 10 they'd leave me in charge of my brothers (5 and 7 years old!) for hours at a time. Alone. By the time I was 14 they left us alone for an entire week. Looking back as an adult that was abusive to all of us, and placed me in a position where even as adults my brothers still resent the force I resorted to in order to mantain order. It honestly would have been kinder if some neighbor had called family services and they'd discovered what all was going on.

That's messed up--a week? What about groceries and stuff? I mean...at 14 I watched myself overnight once or twice...but to be babysitting for that long? That's way excessive and its neither fair to you or them--I mean, its expecting too much...like the Love, Joy and Feminism blog, where she was expected to discipline her siblings? I get giving kids responsibility--Sophie is occasionally put in charge of monitoring what Collin is doing (like if I'm in the bathroom or cooking) and then reporting to me if he's doing something naughty, but I'd never let her punish him, you know?

Ah! The groceries comment totally reminded me...when I was 15, my mom and step-dad went out of town for a week, and they had my (very awesome 22 yo drag-racing) cousin come and "hang out" (at least they were nice enough not to call, it "baby sitting") and "work on my driving" (I had my permit)...the specific reason that I had a "babysitter" was because I didn't have a license in case I needed to go somewhere...like for groceries (my mother seemed to have this fear that the fridge and pantry would mysteriously eat all the food and I wouldn't think to ask the neighbor--who had been my babysitter for 10 years, no less, and I would starve or something)...

I think I started thinking about this because one of the posts on her blog sort of hit home...I don't not let my kids (well, Sophie, because she's the only one capable of logic and reasoning yet) do things because I fear for them, or that something could happen to them--I parent on the basis of "will someone call DCFS" or not. Seriously--we have a pool at the apartment complex and our apartment overlooks the pool, so if Sophie has to go pee and we are at the pool, I have no problem letting her run up and pee (I can see her go to the steps, and enter the apartment...the only time I loose sight of her is when she goes up the stairs and when she is in the apartment)...she is more than capable of doing this without any problems--but apparently it makes me a bad mom. OR, there is the letting her go to the counter at McDonalds even while watching from the play area, to order a treat...makes me a bad mom (and not on the basis of McD's nutritional blasphemy). Are these really our opinions and standards for kids? To keep them totally inept and ignorant of how the world works? To have their own experiences and learn to be their own people? I mean...teaching them to be aware of their surroundings and to never get in a car with a stranger, and to defend themselves if necessary is one thing...but not to meet and greet life?

I thought this list from one of the commenters was pretty interesting though--

**Tylluan Penry** · 16 Aug 2011, 10:16

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

I think it's abusive to molly-coddle a child for years and then suddenly whip all that cocoon away and let them get on with it. For me the secret of parenting was gradual and intelligent withdrawal. I often let my children do things that other mothers thought was risky - but I only did it when they (and I) felt they were ready, I was always there for them, and I always kept an eye on things from a distance. Also when we were all out together I would ask their advice and let them make decisions 'do you think that route is safe?' 'Do you think that person is acting a bit odd?' So we discussed decisions and how they were made.

My children took their tumbles like most others of their generation. When they grazed their knees I washed them and put anti-septic on them. I didn't go out and insist that the road should be padded so it couldn't happen again.

**B. de Corbin** · 16 Aug 2011, 10:21

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

Originally posted by thalassa View Post

Are these really our opinions and standards for kids? To keep them totally inept and ignorant of how the world works? To have their own experiences and learn to be their own people? I mean...teaching them to be aware of their surroundings and to never get in a car with a stranger, and to defend themselves if necessary is one thing...but not to meet and greet life?

You know, I think about this every time I see one of those ads for disinfectant on TV where a concerned mom whips out the product every time the dog sneezes.

There's going to be a lot of variation in the way parents raise their children, and that's a good thing - it only becomes a bad thing when there is either way too much, or way too little, but between those extremes, there's a big area that is, if not "just right," then at least OK. And like you said earlier, Thalassa, it's going to depend on the time, place, age, and individual capabilities of the particular kid.

If you don't let the kids get into a little mischief every now and then (in a appropriate context), they aren't going to learn much. I figure that the parent's job is to, while the kid is young, teach them some kind of ethics, and keep them out of the kind of mischief that is difficult to get out of (like committing crimes) or fatal, but leave them enough elbow room so that they can learn to navigate their own path through a somewhat dangerous world.

Right now I've got a newlywed daughter who calls daily to tell me about her money woes. Generally, I listen to what she has to say, tell her about my own money woes, commiserate a bit, and that's it. I could send her some cash - that would be the easy thing to do because it would make her happy and make me feel good - but they have to learn to handle this stuff on their own.

You know, and I know, and everybody who has ever moved out of mom's basement knows that money woes are a daily part of life. If it isn't the car breaking down, it's the water heater. If a person can't learn to handle these things then they really aren't an adult yet. In a year from now, I don't want her calling me every time they run short on cash and have to eat potatoes for a week - unless she needs a recipe from when wifey and I had to do that.

**Dez** · 16 Aug 2011, 10:46

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

Originally posted by thalassa View Post

That's messed up--a week? What about groceries and stuff? I mean...at 14 I watched myself overnight once or twice...but to be babysitting for that long? That's way excessive and its neither fair to you or them--I mean, its expecting too much...like the Love, Joy and Feminism blog, where she was expected to discipline her siblings? I get giving kids responsibility--Sophie is occasionally put in charge of monitoring what Collin is doing (like if I'm in the bathroom or cooking) and then reporting to me if he's doing something naughty, but I'd never let her punish him, you know?

I honestly don't remember that well anymore...we were one of those hardcore foodstorage families (complete with handcart to walk back to Jackson County Missouri when Christ came)...even if the fridge had run out, we could have lived off of MRI's and boiled wheat for weeks.

The part that is still really hard for me to cope with is that my cat (often my only companion since I was 8) got really sick right before they left...like not eating. They didn't want to cancel their trip, and so they left it in my hands...I was 14, I didn't know what to do. After they came home again, she was in really bad shape and had to be put down. I carried that around for 12 YEARS as a failing on my part...proof inside my head that I was a bad person.

When I turned 18 I hadn't been allowed to so much as date, and so the real world was a hard adjustment. It's very similar to what she talks about on Love, Joy, and Feminism, and I can relate directly to about 85% of what she says from her childhood.

Now that Allie's Kindergarten age, she wants to do more herself, and it's honestly hard for me to let her sometimes. I'm not always sure where the good balance is and I wish I were better at it, honestly. More and more I have to just take a deep breath and say, "you know what? She wants to do this and she's a smart little girl...she'll be fine, and if she's not, I'll be there to step in".

**thalassa** · 16 Aug 2011, 10:59

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

Originally posted by DeseretRose View Post

Now that Allie's Kindergarten age, she wants to do more herself, and it's honestly hard for me to let her sometimes. I'm not always sure where the good balance is and I wish I were better at it, honestly. More and more I have to just take a deep breath and say, "you know what? She wants to do this and she's a smart little girl...she'll be fine, and if she's not, I'll be there to step in".

I don't think anyone is ever really sure where the good balance is...

**DanieMarie** · 16 Aug 2011, 11:35

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

Fear is unfortunately a HUGE motivator to sell things. If there's some sort of fear out there, a marketer will try to exploit it to sell you something.

**Monk** · 17 Aug 2011, 05:30

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

Very heavy sigh........Thinking about an old movie I think the name of it was "The boy in the bubble" or something.
I haven't seen any of these products were I live but I'm sure some parent around here is getting out the duct tape and bubble wrap for their kid before they go outside. I'm sure at least some of us remember going out to play in the summer and mom or dad would say be careful and be home before the street lights come on. And at this point we headed for the woods or some such place for the day. I know it's a different (sadly) world now. But I gave my kids the leeway to make mistakes and make sound decisions on their own. Kept lots of band aids and disinfectant around just in case things didn't go just right. We did use car seats and bike helmets and pads for rollerblading, but that's about it. The kid's are all (Yes!!!! they survived) adults with some very good life skills as well as fond memory's of things they did growing up.
If we continue to hobble our kids and insulate them from the world and life in general how will they learn to handle the things that do happen in adult life like coming up on a accident victim(and helping if possible instead of just gaucking from your car) or any number of things that will pop up in there lives. These products are aimed at people with no life skills and will produce people of the same mind set for the most part. I say let kids be kids or we are going to end up with a bunch of people who are happy just sitting in their little cubical waiting for someone to tell them what to do and how exactly to do it.
Oh wait a minuet' we might be to late on that one.

**Dez** · 17 Aug 2011, 06:37

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

Even all sorts of cautionary things can't prevent some kinds of accidents. My grandmother grew up using oil lamps and so even though we still didn't have those around, she talked to all her grandkids about how to be safe with them. She and her siblings also all grew up around farm animals, but that didn't prevent one of her younger siblings from wandering into the barn and getting kicked in the head by a cart horse. She didn't spend the rest of her life telling family members they shouldn't be around horses, though...

Every year here, we have a toddler or two come visit family and fall into the irrigation canals. It's horribly painful for the families, but when you have 20+ grandchildren all running around at a family reunion, short of tethering the little ones to a tree, something like that is a risk.

I doubt a helmet and knee pads for toddling would have helped.

**Hawkfeathers** · 17 Aug 2011, 07:23

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

We lived in Brooklyn till I was 11, so there was no "unwatched" playtime. Which means we weren't running around alone - but we WERE running around! We jumped off the stoop onto the sidewalk, and sometimes fell, we rollerskated (the kind that go on over your shoes and tightened with a key) we opened the fire hydrants and played in the water. There were plenty of knee-scrapes, etc. and we learned from them.

**Simon Slade** · 17 Aug 2011, 08:47

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

I'm all for keeping children safe, but if you go to far they end up believing that everything in the world is out to hurt them. They need a good healthy understanding of the dangers of the world. They need to fall and scrape their knees. They need to make mistakes, but with the freedom to make mistakes, they will find that the world is fun and most of it isn't necessarily out to get you.

**Tylluan Penry** · 17 Aug 2011, 15:21

Re: Product Placement & Parental Paranoia

These advertisers would love my house (not

) Last time she was here, one of my grandchildren asked 'Nana, why is there so much spit on the floor?'
I explained that St Bernard's tend to drool a lot. And some of it goes all over the floor. And Nana doesn't always manage to clear it up in time.
I then suggested she should look at the ceiling.
And I explained that when the dog shakes his head, the spit ends up there, too, dangling down like a wobbly stalagtite.

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