Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

[Caelia]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

The idea of 'Becoming' ...something. Reiki has this idea too.

I don't mean to be vague. I mean to be very specific...

Which tradition of Reiki alludes to "becoming" something? The closest I can think of is something like the Ama Deus system, but that's not Reiki.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu_%28negative%29 I'm curious as to how the name for this practice arose. One interpretation not listed for answering a question with "mu," basically amounts to saying "unask the question," though it fits the commentary. A religion named for this word is going to intrigue me. So, how often do you practice?


But either way... I disagree about your relation. From what little I've been able to gather about Mundang, practitioners generally fall ill with more varied forms of shamanic sickness, which is to be treated with the initiation. While some reiki masters talk about having a "purification period" after attunement where some of the symptoms are similar, attunement and shamanic initiation play opposed roles about the sickness- one incites a short period of apparent illness which passes on it's own, the other cures such an illness which could go on indefinitely by initiating them into this new world.

While that song from a heavy metal band is quite entralling, I also cannot find much about said Wild Hunt actually granting anyone "power" of any sort. I'm used to it just being a sort of celestial event, where people are just at the mercy of chance, nature, and the supernatural forces that participate in both and the hunt. If you're unlucky, you go in and don't come back. If you're lucky, you don't get involved in the first place. My interpretation may be quite off here, but I have yet to find any references to this event as such an initiation as could be related to that of the Mundang.

This initiation could be related much more to many other traditions. It's quite the prolific template for a spiritual experience. It has even been suggested that rather than prostitution, the shaman was the world's first profession among humans, and this template for experience is wide spread among such practitioners. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shamanism Even the Wikipedia entry on Shamanism illustrates this geographical diversity among what we call "shamans". But not only shamans experience this. Katragama's Priestesses in Hinduism, some of Tibetan Buddhists,... and I'm getting more convinced than ever that the Sufi trance-state of Wajd has similar effects if abused, but that's less than a perfect fit.

Heck, Even Taoism shares quite a bit more in common with this than simple reiki. One story for the origin of the I Ching (which inspired Lao Tsu's Tao Te Ching), is that it was originally practiced by a shaman who placed a tortoise shell into a fire to read the cracks that emerge. Traditional Chinese medicine didn't emerge from nothingness - it was crafted over centuries of experiementation from Taoist "Internal Alchemists", their own tradition descending from shamans who used even some entheogenic (psychoactive) herbs. Nevermind the similarities in ritual - Muist and Taoist (and probably Buddhist as well) folks all visibly exchanged quite a few ideas.

[verlignus]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

Troll,

I find this very interesting indeed. Your posts show how the history and lore of peoples all over the World are similar in ways we generally do not give attention to.
For my part, i would refer you to the legacy of Diana in Stregheria lore. Diana led the Wild Hunt and looking into this may give you a perspective. There are other traditions who referred to the Wild Hunt so I am surprised that no one else responded to your call.
Beware of using modern poems and songs as a template for answers, much of the content is ego driven and can drift form the essence of the origins.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

Therion is a band which deals with occult themes now for many years. They have their own occult society. I've never taken part but they are an exemplary heavy metal band. Since the song was by them, I assumed that the lyricist had read things that inclined him to write the lyrics in such way.

I've had trouble eating and been thin etc since I was a young child. If I was a native korean I would be the type of person pulled aside to undergo shinbyeong (?). The traditions of shamanism differ by geographical region generally divided by the Han river. I think what they mean, the shamans who try to both cure and undergo shinbyeong is that when you have your communion with spirits they will eat you so to speak and make you weak, and if you do not reconcile your fate you will continue to be weak and miserable, and through acceptance of the spirits in your life they will make you strong and assist you.

[kijani]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

I have a question. Is this religious path something you found on the internet? Were you raised with it? I'm just curious where this stuff is coming from because I have never heard of it... which is entirely possible, as there are multitudes of religions on the Earth, but I'm just curious where it's all coming from.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

I have a question. Is this religious path something you found on the internet? Were you raised with it? I'm just curious where this stuff is coming from because I have never heard of it... which is entirely possible, as there are multitudes of religions on the Earth, but I'm just curious where it's all coming from.

It is not a religion so much as the common folklore of Korean civilization. If you read about it there are anthropologists studying this and comparing notes and are all like these folks in this area of Korea are like this, and these folks are like that..

Where is it all coming from?

Korea.

In fact, in a lot of ways, it IS Korea.

If there was one spiritual idea that defines Korea as a nation for good or ill it is their shamans. All the other religions and philosophies are foreign to them.

The reason you haven't heard about it is simply because western understanding and familiarity with Korea and its civilization is up and coming.

Already, there has been lots of interest in Korean television dramas and cinema with lots of praise the world over, Korean cuisine and food... have you ever tried kim-chi? bulgogi and korean bbq? It's an experience not to be forgotten.

Korean dolls are also very popular with those who want finely crafted beautiful dolls.. Asian Ball Jointed Dolls originally pioneered by someone in the company Volks (Super Dollfie) now there are many Korean companies that make them. Like the one shown on left my avatar she is a Cerberus Project 'Soony' from a company called LUTS

[kijani]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

Okay... No offense, but I am no further convinced of the argument now than I was before. I have lived in Japan. I spent time in Korea, and if this was so widely defined as you claim, I'm pretty sure I would have heard of it. Referencing anything by LeVay in conjunction with your talk of Korea makes absolutely no sense to me. Most people in that area of the world practice some form of buddhism, shinto, or confucianism. Nine times out of ten, if you ask someone on that side of the world, they may even claim they have no religion, even though they may observe some religious traditions. While each of the above may have some practices that seem shamanistic, I've never heard talk of this. I was actually hoping for some legitimate references for my own research...and the Temple of Vampires series or whatever it's called is not a legitimate academic reference as far as I'm concerned.

Now I'm even more confused as to how this went from a contrast of Korean Shamanism and the Wild Hunt to.... this post. Is that bottom section a copy/paste of a book from somewhere? References would be helpful.

[Caelia]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

Now I'm even more confused as to how this went from a contrast of Korean Shamanism and the Wild Hunt to.... this post. Is that bottom section a copy/paste of a book from somewhere? References would be helpful.

I'm still waiting on which form of Reiki teaches one to "become" something...

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

Neither of you took the time to look at any of the links in my OP

so neither of you matter.

Those who can perform reiki do so at a cost and as an innate ability which separates them from the profane.

You cannot do reiki without attunement. Which is not the same as treatment.

Why do I have grab your hand and guide you to simple things like wikipedia?

And I won't drag you. Either look into and care or don't.

[Dez]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

This is a final moderator warning. The people in this thread are going out of their way to help you, and I have seen animals treated with more respect. This is NOT the way we do things in this forum.

If you do not:
1. Simmer down
2. Treat your fellow members with respect.
3. Take a moment, back up, realize you just might not know as much as you think you do, and consider offering an apology to the two ladies you just offended.
4. Stop asking questions and then being angry when our answers don't seem to be what you want to hear.

I WILL take moderator action. Again, this is not acceptable, and if you do not like our rules in regard to respecting other members, you are free to go elsewhere. If you don't change your attitude, I or one of the other Admins or Mods will take care of that for you.

[kijani]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

I did read the links. Wikipedia is not now, nor has it ever been a reputable academic source for information. It is editable by anyone with an internet connection, and is therefore unaccepted as any sort of reputable source by any reputable institute of higher learning. If this is a debate, debate. Don't throw a wall of text and wikipedia links at me, accuse me of not reading them, and be a jerk when I put my two cents into the conversation. I would post yet another warning, but I think Deseret has already covered what I would have said anyway. Chill out dude. This is supposed to be a debate. Debate is not defined as 'everyone reads wikipedia and then agrees with Troll.'

[Caelia]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

Neither of you took the time to look at any of the links in my OP

so neither of you matter.

Those who can perform reiki do so at a cost and as an innate ability which separates them from the profane.

You cannot do reiki without attunement. Which is not the same as treatment.

Why do I have grab your hand and guide you to simple things like wikipedia?

And I won't drag you. Either look into and care or don't.

None of your links spoke of how Reiki "becomes" an individual. Reiki is universal energy so I don't see how one can enter any otherworldy state of mind since the practitioner is a conduit. One doesn't need to be in any "otherworldly" state to send Reiki. The closest you get is the gasshou, but that's more of a prayer to be able to serve as a conduit. It's a very passive role.

You have been asked to explain your position and how you came to your conclusions. You refuse to do that. I have simply asked what tradition of Reiki brought about this conclusion. You, instead of answering the question, threw a hissy fit. I don't like herrings, even if they're red.

And, honestly? I don't know why you think my question had to do with treatments since I was asking as a Practioner and as someone who is qualified to teach Usui Reiki. By the way, how long have you been practicing? I've been a Master level since 2005 in Usui Reiki. I've attuned one other member of this forum and have taught him up to 2nd level. Before the forum crashed I had a thread explaining each level of Usui Reiki Shiki Ryoho and answering the questions as they came along. Sure, I could have link dumped like there was no tomorrow. Sometimes, though, it is the person's duty as a Practitioner and as a Teacher to use their own words without ego.

While I "don't matter" is kinda endearing and amusing, I know this is all a ploy to skirt the issue. Truly, I think like DR pointed out you are very inexperienced at best. Plus, if you are truly attuned (which I highly question) you would realize you are acting out of anger, something against Usui-sensei's principles. Should I also mention the disrespect to elders? I think you need to meditate on a few things.

[AzazelEblis]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

Neither of you took the time to look at any of the links in my OP

so neither of you matter.

Those who can perform reiki do so at a cost and as an innate ability which separates them from the profane.

You cannot do reiki without attunement. Which is not the same as treatment.

Why do I have grab your hand and guide you to simple things like wikipedia?

And I won't drag you. Either look into and care or don't.

This is a debate. You put forward an idea, so support it with more than your word. Provide evidence that the Wild Hunt is some sort of initiatory experience, or don't bother bringing it up - because someone's artwork isn't cutting it. Or better yet, enumerate the non-trivial similarities.

I'm lax in that it's okay with me to link to a wikipedia article which cites credible sources (though that won't get everyone), or to say "I don't remember where this came from," but realize that the ideas you present could then be knocked over with *any* credible example. Yes, I did that in this thread with my assertion that the Wild Hunt was not an initiatory experience to my knowledge. Provide a well-reasoned argument or credible source that says this Wild Hunt *is* such, and my say-so folds. And if we're locked on say-so on both sides, this debate goes nowhere. Neither of us wants that.

I have a hard time relating the experience of giving/recieving Reiki to something of an initiation (again, which I'm pulling that stanza in the Therion song - you haven't stated *what similarities* you believe exist). And I'm not seeing where it relates to the practices of the mundang beyond "it's healing and it uses symbolism and spirituality". Feel free to correct me.

And hey, maybe I'm just too used to reading and writing math proofs to really construct your point for you. Maybe you wanted a discussion? Where we all explore it together, each contributing ideas. That's different than a debate, where we pick sides and support our positions with logic and evidence.

I don't mean this to sound like I'm talking down. I'm actually used to people coming in and not knowing quite what a debate is, and that instead we should help you build what you have into a debate to help you learn. With all the mod warnings, I hope you don't get banned before you have the opportunity to respond in a constructive manner.

[Crimson Horizons]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

The first thing I notice is that if you are using Therion's The Wild Hunt as your basis for what the historical Wild Hunt represents you are doing yourself a grave disservice. The Wild Hunt as practiced by my ancestors bears virtually no resemblance to the song you link.

The second issue I have is that you are comparing a single ritual practice/event with what appears to be a belief system as well as a healing practice, and doing so poorly in my opinion. If you can see any correlation between the Wild Hunt and Reiki alone, your are doing so at the expense of every other incongruous aspect between the two. The Wild Hunt was primarily something to be feared and almost never trifled with. From what I understand about Reiki, it involves a variation of faith healing and meditation, though I readily admit my knowledge of Reiki is limited. Still, from what I do know, I can find no similarities between the two.

Moving beyond that, after reading the majority of the "Charismatic 'Mudang'" article you link to, I can see little connexion between Korean Shamanism and the Wild Hunt. I can, however, see some similarities between the native European religions and what the article describes. That said, the article itself says that there is little written information on the practice and everything the author describes therein are from sources claiming to be ancestral practitioners of the Charismatic Mudang, which is another issue altogether.

I suppose that I am at a loss as to what exactly the purpose of this thread is. As AzazelEblis points out, it is almost as if you are looking for a discussion on the topic, which is fine. If you are looking for debate, honest debate, then you are going about it all wrong. Attacking established members when you cannot (or will not) refute their positions nor answer their questions is decidedly not a debate, neither is it a discussion, nor is it good etiquette in any forum that I am aware of. You may wish to re-evaluate a) what it is you want this thread to lead to, and b) your internet manners.

[Troll_ov_Grimness]

Re: Contrasting The Wild Hunt with Korean Shamanism and Reiki

The koreans worship the spirits of warrior generals. From an actual case history of shinbyong (initiation shaman illness),

"That night she had a dream in which many shillyong (spirits) riding horses, came into her house, waving flags and swords. [This signifies in Korean folk lore that one is being possessed] .

Shamans believe in travelling the middle realm (above your head), the lower realm (underworld) and the heavens.

Korean shamanism is close geographically and also similar to shamanic customs in Siberia and Mongolia etc... some Koreans worship Genghis Khan or General Douglas MacArthur. anyone really.

The idea in the wild hunt of being 'taken' recalls spiritual possession. for the Koreans who want to become shamans this a rite of passage.