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Your pet bird really is talking to you

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    Your pet bird really is talking to you

    For a long time, there was an idea that speech was a characteristic of humans alone.

    However, animal communication is being studied pretty seriously these days, and speech-like traits are being found more and more often in animals.

    If you've ever felt that your pet bird is talking to you, you may be right:

    http://www.world-science.net/exclusi...601_parrot.htm
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.


    #2
    Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

    When it comes to animal communication studies, I feel like scientists/behavioralists/naturalists, etc. are trying to reinvent the wheel.

    Pet-owners and people who work with animals on a regular basis know that animals are not 'dumb', their behaviors are not just 'instincts', and that yes, animals can and do communicate with other species, including humans.
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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      #3
      Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

      Yup - crazy isn't it?

      Anybody who works with or spends much time around animals is fully aware that they can communicate. The "language" is generally less sophisticated than human language (although dolphins and whales may prove more complicated once they are better understood), but it's there...
      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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        #4
        Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

        Interesting, but the linguist in me is going to have to wade in. I'm afraid that no animals share the language faculty with us. Animals can make a range of calls, yes, and they can communicate, but there are several things characteristic of speech that animals cannot perform:

        * They can't combine elements to create new meanings- often, they simply create strings of meaningless units (i.e. birdsong- and though this can have its own phonology, this is nowhere near as complex as human phonology and it does not have the other main features of language.)

        *related to the above post is what is termed 'Duality of patterning'- the idea that individual units of meaning can be combined to create larger phrases with a different meaning; meaning being the important word here, as most animal sounds are instinctual, even when in reponse to a predator- they are innate and not learned, so they do not have meaning in same way that our vocalisations do. No animal communication has been found to have this duality of patterning.

        * They cannot refer to objects that aren't within their immediate presence- this is something only humans can do. Monkeys can point to things, but they can't talk about what happened yesterday, or something they can't see. One notable exception to this is bees, whose waggle dance explains where faraway food is. However this is a display that literally 'points' in the direction of the food- no speech/language/syntax etc.

        *animal calls tend to be instinctual and involuntary- human calls are the exact opposite, and most importantly, we know when to be silent. We can also be creative and form new sounds- as I've already stated, animals are born with their calls so they don't do this.

        * All attempts to teach animals language have ultimately failed- mainly because they cannot grasp syntax. The best that has ever been achieved with chimps and bonobos is the grammar skills of an infant (and an infant who's pretty poor at grammar, at that).

        In regards to Cosmo. She's a very clever parrot, but I doubt that she could create entirely new phrases by combining words. She's merely mimicing human noises, and using them in the same context that she's observed humans using them in. Therefore, Cosmo does not 'talk' as we do, and neither do other animals. Animals do not have language like us. Even dolphins and whales. Yes, they can communicate with us in that they can make noises that get us to bring them food, give them a cuddle, etc., but they've ALWAYS had those noises. Sorry to spoil everyone's party but I just had three hours of lectures/seminars on this today...
        "The Germans do not think it in keeping with the divine majesty to confine gods within walls or to portray them in the likeness of any human countenance. Their holy places are woods and groves, and they apply the names of deities to that hidden presence which is seen only by the eye of reverence." (Tacitus, `Germania', 9)

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          #5
          Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

          Well, as somebody who once had a class in psycholinguistics and is therefore completely unqualified to argue with somebody who does actually know anything about linguistics ( ), let me bring up a couple points. Outsiders are good for that...

          The definition of language you are using is designed specifically to describe language as language is used by humans, and to exclude forms of communication which may be used by other species. In other words, it is based on an a priori prejudice that human type language is the only type possible. I'd like to suggest that this concept needs to be expanded.

          Obviously, if you define language in such a way that only humans can possibly do it, you will find that only humans do it.

          A better way to define "language" might be: signaling a clear message. This would allow for non verbal communication - which is the form of language you would expect to develop in animals, with their limited vocal abilities. It would also allow you to consider all those other non verbal forms of communication which we know take place in different species, such as pheromones, other types of scents, heat, color changes, electric signals, etc.

          Oh - and isn't Cosmo learning language in exactly the same way as a human child learns it? Maybe I dreanpt that part of some lecture.... They were night classes...
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #6
            Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

            My 22 y/o Congo African Grey most definitely communicates with intelligence. Example: He knows what "water" is, and that "outside" is what he sees through the windows. When he was much younger, on a rainy day, he said "water outside". I never say that about rain.
            "Trouble" is the word used if something's amiss. When a big storm's approaching and the trees are moving a lot he says "trouble in trees". He relates the two things by himself, and uses English words to convey his thoughts.
            Of course, this is limited, but I think a lot of the limitation was imposed by me not pushing him. Small children often understand concepts and know the names we call objects long before they speak. I don't know exactly what he knows, but I firmly believe it's a lot more than what he says.
            sigpic
            Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

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              #7
              Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

              Language isn't the totality of communication...and more than humans have a systematic method of communications...the idea that two species manage to figure some of what is going on some of the time, isn't entirely surprising, IMO.
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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                #8
                Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

                With all that shared evolutionary history, we should be able to understand at least some of the animals fairly well.

                Wait until we meet something with which we have no shared history. I'm wondering if we will even know which end to try and talk to... If ends have any meaning when related to something from a completely different evolutionary line.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #9
                  Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

                  I think a lot of people miss out on the importance of body language - animals (including people) convey so much just through posture and expressions - and there is a lot of emotional communication going on there. I have a harder time understanding people who speak other languages than I do any non-human animal, and find myself having to rely on non-verbal cues more often than not.

                  Scientists are even now willing to admit that animals are happy when they smile - and the 'smiles' aren't just defensive mechanisms in play - and some animals, like rats, dogs & chimps, can laugh.

                  Rats Laugh When Tickled
                  The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                    #10
                    Re: Your pet bird really is talking to you

                    Yeah - my dog makes a "huff" sound, which is described in the literature as "a sudden exhalation which expresses pleasure."

                    If that can't be called a laugh, I'm at a loss to understand what a laugh is.

                    And if you have a dog and have watched it interacting with other dogs, you've propobly seen the "doggy bow," where one dog will lower it's front end, while keeping it's back end raised. A dog only does this during play, most often when the bowing dog has just pushed play fighting a bit to far - according to the literature I've read, this is kind of like an apology for getting to serious.

                    I'd translate that as "Hey! I was only foolin'."
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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