Ye Olde Book Club: Mary Anne Atwood's Hermetic Philosophy and Alchemy

[thalassa]

HA! I finally found Atwood online... http://www.rexresearch.com/atwood/cont.htm

ETA: I think this might be where she is talking about the elements....but its written in ye olde occult and my eyes are starting to cross...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What the heck is Alchemy?

All is sown under the cross and completed in its number --- Darkness will draw over the face of the Abyss, Night, Saturn and the Antimony of the Wise will be present, Obscurity and the Head of the Crow in the various hours of conjunction; and all the colours of the world will be apparent; also Iris, God’s messenger, and the tail of the peacock; as the rainbow through the falling drops, reflects the sunbeam in the apparent ether after the storms are overpast and the dark clouds are dispersed, the same beautiful token of reconciliation is made apparent in the Microcosmic Heaven; the fire and water are commingled, and, falling together under the cross, germinate, and the beautiful Ideal of Harmony is born of the Spirit.

Well, she's writing like an Alchemist. I'd have to study the writing for a while before I could tell if she's actually saying anything.

Have fun with figuring that out!

---------- Post added at 10:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:31 AM ----------

I've been skimming through Atwood's text. It is pretty interesting.

As you read Atwood, Thalassa, here are a couple of things that you can use to determine whether the author is blowing smoke or talking sense:

1. Does the author demonstrate an ability to understand the texts?

Alchemy is a very obscure study, and the texts require time, effort, thought, and imagination if one wants to understand them. If the author can not clearly link the ideas he/she puts forth to actual Alchemical texts, he/she is most likely a poser.

2. Watch out for authors who claim to have a line on "the REAL secret of Alchemy" passed on through some ancient secret tradition.

If this claim is true, such a person should be able to clearly demonstrate how that "secret tradition" is expressed in the texts - not just through the pictures (see no. 1). If you do a google search using the search terms "Alchemy" and "sex," you'll get over a million hits. One of the most persistent bullshits about Alchemy is that it was a secret form of sex magic. Pretty much the only evidence ever offered are pictures of people having sex, such as I've shown above.

But they offer no textual support. They also ignore the 99 percent of the pictures which don't depict sex acts at all. (I'm working on a blog post about this)

3. The principle "as it is above, so it is below" is so central to Alchemy that a thing which does not include it can no longer be Alchemy. The way this plays out in practice is that inner change and outer change are reflections of each other - so you can't be an Alchemist without doing inner and outer work. Beware of those who claim that Alchemy is "just" a primitive form of superstitious chemistry, AND of those who claim that the chemistry is there "just" to disguise or conceal the secrets of the inner work. These people are only half right... And half right here is completely wrong.

4. Understanding the practice of Alchemy is a very different thing from learning the history of Alchemy, but the history is much easier to tell and research - if you want to understand Alchemy, you learn that by reading the writings of Alchemists, and by doing what they did. A person who describes Alchemy by outlining it's history isn't telling you much that is useful.



The Atwood text does look interesting. If you want to read it, let me know - I'll read it along with you, and we can try to figure it out...

[thalassa]

Re: What the heck is Alchemy?

The Atwood text does look interesting. If you want to read it, let me know - I'll read it along with you, and we can try to figure it out...

That would be awesome, since you have more experience than I do with it!

My main interest with Atwood, is that she wrote this in the 1850's, which for me is *perfect*, since part of my interest is in 19th century natural history and spirituality movements (which which, I think this text would have interested me as a person, were I alive then) as far as reenacting goes... I know a bit about the spirituality movements (particularly with their connection to the women's suffrage and abolition movements)...but FAR less about the occult of the time.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What the heck is Alchemy?

I don't know much about 19th century occultism either, although I do know Alchemy, and it will be interesting to see her take on it. This will be a good project...

---------- Post added at 04:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:17 AM ----------

Just reading the first paragraph, Atwood does make the point that, however interesting the history of Alchemy may be, the history of a thing is not the same as the thing itself - and the thing itself is more important.

She's already demonstrated the 4th point in the criteria I listed above...

[thalassa]

Re: What the heck is Alchemy?

Just reading the first paragraph, Atwood does make the point that, however interesting the history of Alchemy may be, the history of a thing is not the same as the thing itself - and the thing itself is more important.

She's already demonstrated the 4th point in the criteria I listed above...

We should create our own thread...call it "Decoding Atwood" or something, and read a section or two at a time...whomever wants can read along, and offer commentary...since its written in 1856, its not covered by censorship issues, we can post it here...and you can give us all alchemy lessons, since alchemy-speak is practically a foreign language!!

My problem is that I don't understand all of the symbolism that she is alluding to...maybe I just need a glossary,lol!

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What the heck is Alchemy?

LOL - I'm already on the first section...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What the heck is Alchemy?

Thalassa, I'm having a heck of a time finding any information on Margaret Atwood, the occultist. I keep getting bogged down by Margaret Atwood the author. Great author, but not what I'm looking for. Got any links?

I don't need to know much about her to understand her writing, but I'm becoming interested...

[thalassa]

Re: What the heck is Alchemy?

Thalassa, I'm having a heck of a time finding any information on Margaret Atwood, the occultist. I keep getting bogged down by Margaret Atwood the author. Great author, but not what I'm looking for. Got any links?

I don't need to know much about her to understand her writing, but I'm becoming interested...

Lol, you did that name switeroo thing (I do it all the time, lol)! It took me a minute to figure it out too, lol...

Her first name is Mary Anne...but there isn't much info about her that I can find beyond the wiki I linked...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: What the heck is Alchemy?

I'm such a butt!

I even had to go back to the link you posted, because I would have absolutely sworn that it said Margaret!

Now this is pretty interesting...

If you're a Freudian, a Jungian, - or an Alchemist, something like this means something. To Freud, it would have to do with my mom. I don't know what that could be, and I don't think I want to go there anyway. To Jung, it's an example of symchronicity. There's some new idea forming in my subconciuos and the universe tilted to meet it. To an Alchemist, this means that my soul is sending me on a mission. There is something in Margaret Atwood that I need to know.

I guess I got some rereading to do.

Welcome to my world, Thalassa.

[thalassa]

Re: Ye Olde Book Club: Mary Anne Atwood's Hermetic Philosophy and Alchemy

Okay...so I started a new thread, lol...

just an FYI, there is also a downloadable Word or PDF version online...

Anyhoo...for anyone that wants to read along: Part I, chapter I


(lets not talk about how long it took me to figure out that the Smaragdine Table was the Emerald Tablet)

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Ye Olde Book Club: Mary Anne Atwood's Hermetic Philosophy and Alchemy

LOL - terminology is a problem - smaragdine/emerald...

There's a lot of weird language, mostly because some of these manuscripts date back many hundred years, like, for instance, silver is argent (as in Argentina - the land of silver), so you'll see references to things like "argent vive" which means "living silver" - also called "quick silver" (old meaning of quick is living, as in "the quick and the dead"), which is the metallic mercury.

Then too, the names can change, depending on the specific operation being performed - the terms are descriptive, not necessarily absolute. So, sometimes mercury becomes the "white menstrum of Luna" or "the dew of the moon." As annoying as the name changes are to us moderns who are used to a less flexible vocabulary, the individual names are useful in figuring out what physical operation is being performed - that is, what the Alchemist was seeing in his/her glassware. If it refers to the moon and is liquid, it's mercury. If solid, silver, or a silver-based compound.

I've spent a lot of time ferreting out the meanings of old, peculiar words...



I'm really interested in this - Atwood does seem to know what she is talking about. I'll be back...

[B. de Corbin]

Re: Ye Olde Book Club: Mary Anne Atwood's Hermetic Philosophy and Alchemy

Thalassa, are you still up for this?

I'm putting my thoughts about the first section (History) together now... I'll post later tonight or tomorrow.

The second section is interesting, and somewhat confusing. But I think I can clear it up some. She has an interesting writing style...

[thalassa]

Re: Ye Olde Book Club: Mary Anne Atwood's Hermetic Philosophy and Alchemy

Yup. I'm a bit behind because of some things with the kids and the hubby ditching me to go to a Civil War reenactment (which meant a weekend alone with the kids and chaos)...but I should be able to get caught up!

[B. de Corbin]

Nothing, perhaps, is less worthy or more calculated to distract the mind from points of real importance than this very question of temporal origins, which, when we have taken all pains to satisfy and remember, leaves us no wiser in reality than we were before.

Rephrased in a less convoluted way "(instead of learning the history, they should) observe how truth is everywhere eternal, and always originates where it is understood."

[thalassa]

Re: Ye Olde Book Club: Mary Anne Atwood's Hermetic Philosophy and Alchemy

This is part of what has been throwing me off and giving me a bit of a headache (its hard to read things requiring concentration with small children running about and amok).

I'm partially inclined to think that some of it is the writing conventions of the time (ever read Darwin?) and the other part of it *is* the keeping it hidden aspect...funnily enough though, her father thought it was too clear, and they tried to buy up and burn all the copies!

I think her main point here is that while the history of Alchemy is interesting (and she's going to talk about it anyhow so we're all on the same page!!), it ultimately doesn't change the *truth* of the practice of Alchemy.