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    Christian evangelists and truth

    In my wonderings I ran into this Web site intended for Christian evangelists. It's interesting... I have mixed feelings about it...

    http://www.christiananswers.net/evan...efs/wicca.html

    The people who are running the site are trying to clear up misunderstandings about various religions, ranging from Buddhism to Wicca. The link takes you to the page on Wicca & pagan stuff in general. While we could quibble about how correct or complete the info is, the authors are at least trying to clear the air of some misconceptions.

    It goes without saying that they believe pagans are wrong - they're Christian evangelists, after all, but at least there is an attempt to understand what others actually believe.

    The mixed feelings come in because the INTENT of understanding is to help effect a conversion by demonstrating how Christianity is better... Making "understanding" into a sort of weapon.

    Still, if I am going to have weapons leveled at me, I think I prefer understanding to the more common ones - prejudice, righteous indignation, misunderstanding, and flat out lies.

    What do you think about this?
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.


    #2
    Re: Christian evangelists and truth

    As far as Christian apologists go, this one is not all that bad. At least the quotes the author chose to use were some of the more moderate takes on Paganism, instead of the whack-jobbery. I actually liked that McCann didn't say the reason Christians shouldn't worship the Earth as a deity wasn't because God gave them dominion over earth. He also made a distinction between the 'Church' and the religion, and the 'religion' and its 'members'.

    This is what I found to be most objectionable:
    Understand that most Pagans and Wiccans reject the concept of objective truth.

    Wtf is up with that?!
    Last edited by Ophidia; 30 Nov 2011, 05:52. Reason: Objections are not objectives :P
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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      #3
      Re: Christian evangelists and truth

      I think this is it - the context here is religion. Properly, the sentence should read "understand that most Pagans and Wiccans reject the concept of objective truth in religion."

      - Which does tend to be true... Many of us will say something to the effect that there is some truth in most religions, and that each religion suites certain people because of each person's unique personal characteristics. And some people make the mistake that because some things do not have objective truth, then no things have objective truth (mistake: "some" does not equal "all"). You'll find this most commonly when pagan beliefs get close to new age-y stuff.

      Of course, some Christians make a similar mistake - because there is objective truth in some things, there is objective truth in all things... such as religion (mistake: "some" does not equal "all"), making Christianity the "one true religion" and, by necessity, all others wrong.
      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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        #4
        Re: Christian evangelists and truth

        Then again, I think that most religions are based upon a rejection of objective truth at their root.

        There is no objectively collected, verified evidence of some of the most basic claims of religion, starting at the existence (or non-existence) of divinity or divine beings, nor for specific claims such as the existence or divinity of Jesus, the divine inspiration of Muhammad, the existence and "conversion" of Abraham, the events of Moses (from out of Egypt to the 10 commandments, etc), the gold plates of Joseph Smith, etc.

        The difference is (at least in my observation) is that most Pagans I know can admit this...and most evangelical Christians cannot.
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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          #5
          Re: Christian evangelists and truth

          Yes, that's what I've found as well.

          It's one of the snags with a "one way" religion - if there is only one "true" religion, then the one which claims to be "the one true religion" needs to also claim that truth is, at least in terms of religion, objective... and trying to prove that involves a lot of sophistry.
          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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            #6
            Re: Christian evangelists and truth

            In general about this link? Yeah, I'm not comfortable with "understanding" as a tool of conversion. It means to me that it isn't true understanding but just empty gestures to fulfill an agenda. From my experience when understanding is misused in that way there's some fear tactic to follow.
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              #7
              Re: Christian evangelists and truth

              Originally posted by Caelia View Post
              In general about this link? Yeah, I'm not comfortable with "understanding" as a tool of conversion. It means to me that it isn't true understanding but just empty gestures to fulfill an agenda. From my experience when understanding is misused in that way there's some fear tactic to follow.
              Yeah, that's where I get uneasy too. But the upside is this - once they are willing to admit - for whatever reason - that we are not inherently evil, they have opened the door to another way of thinking.

              LOL - pagans could use that for some reverse evangelizin'... if we didn't have better things to with our time...

              (I think I'm going to miss being inherently evil)
              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                #8
                Re: Christian evangelists and truth

                Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post

                LOL - pagans could use that for some reverse evangelizin'... if we didn't have better things to with our time...

                (I think I'm going to miss being inherently evil)
                Hey, anymore I respond with, "Osiris died for your crops". I think it gets the point across. If not, well, it still amuses me.
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                  #9
                  Re: Christian evangelists and truth

                  Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                  Yeah, that's where I get uneasy too. But the upside is this - once they are willing to admit - for whatever reason - that we are not inherently evil, they have opened the door to another way of thinking.

                  (I think I'm going to miss being inherently evil)
                  My inherent evilness has nothing to do with my religion. I was born this way! > : D
                  Last edited by Ophidia; 30 Nov 2011, 18:36. Reason: Devil emote, why u no work!?
                  The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                    #10
                    Re: Christian evangelists and truth

                    Originally posted by perzephone View Post
                    My inherent evilness has nothing to do with my religion. I was born this way! > : D
                    You're lucky. All I had going for me was my inherent evility. Now, I'm just a fuddy-duddy.
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                      #11
                      Re: Christian evangelists and truth

                      Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                      What do you think about this?
                      Putting aside some wrong info mentioned here and there, I really don't have a problem with websites like that. People have every right to think I'm completely wrong, and they have the right to think of ways to convince me to see their way.

                      They aren't advocating violence or anything like that. They are just trying to think of arguments to supports their claim. Nothing inherently evil about that, in my opinion
                      [4:82]

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                        #12
                        Re: Christian evangelists and truth

                        Originally posted by Dumuzi View Post
                        Putting aside some wrong info mentioned here and there, I really don't have a problem with websites like that. People have every right to think I'm completely wrong, and they have the right to think of ways to convince me to see their way.

                        They aren't advocating violence or anything like that. They are just trying to think of arguments to supports their claim. Nothing inherently evil about that, in my opinion
                        No, nothing bad, really. At least some people have realized that you get further when you understand others that you do when you vilify them. It leads to much more useful discussions.
                        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                          #13
                          Re: Christian evangelists and truth

                          That site seems fairly decent.

                          I tend to be rather cynical of those sorts of things because I've seen it turn into "this is why we have the truth, and all these other religions don't" far too often.
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                            #14
                            Re: Christian evangelists and truth

                            This in a strange way reminds me of the history of the Christian church. When it was declared a national belief(Constantine made it the State religion) he allowed most pagan beliefs to be added to get the pagans to switch. Plopping down Christian holidays on top of old pagan ones,Christmas for one.
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                              #15
                              Re: Christian evangelists and truth

                              Originally posted by anunitu View Post
                              This in a strange way reminds me of the history of the Christian church. When it was declared a national belief(Constantine made it the State religion) he allowed most pagan beliefs to be added to get the pagans to switch. Plopping down Christian holidays on top of old pagan ones,Christmas for one.
                              I read an interesting article suggesting that Christmas is not quite the pagan festival it appears to be:
                              How December 25 Became Christmas (note: Christian source). It basically says that Dec 25 is 9 months from Easter, which was also traditionally the date at which Mary encountered the angel Gabriel, and thus, when Jesus was conceived. No one until the 12th C made any connection between Christmas and the Roman celebrations, apparently.
                              I just thought that was interesting Though I agree that Christianity did adopt customs and other holidays from the pagans around them.

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