Just how screwed are we?

[anunitu]

Just a little "Rant" thing,to post about what/where this country is heading for.

Sometimes it feels like we are on a runaway train heading for the cliff.

Post what you think our future might end up looking like.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

I think the West in general is on a decline. I don't think that has to be a bad thing, but we may have to lower our expectations a bit.

[Thjoth]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

Obama is currently signing a law into effect that allows them to detain American citizens indefinitely without charge if they're suspected of "terrorism." This effectively suspends the right to habeas corpus. Simultaneously, the Department of Defense is referring to protesters as "low level terrorists." I'm sure you can put one and one together, there. On top of that, the SOPA bill that will allow the government to censor the Internet is going through committee and the signs are pointing to it being passed into law in some form, because several dozen huge corporations have openly paid off a number of Congressional leaders. You want to know where we're going? Look at China, because at this rate, that's where we'll be in the next decade or two. It's either that, or an open civil war. Probably both.

Sources:
Indefinite Detention
Protesters low level terrorists
SOPA

[anunitu]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

I have also followed all these issues,and it does worry me to see these types of things going on.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

I couldn't be in the US...either way, you can't win, and everything is too divisive there. Like, half the people are what are by our standards nut-job conservative (and I dont' want to be insulting, but it's just a position that does land you in 'nut job' territory) and on the other end it seems like they're constantly torn between pleasing two different positions.

Europe isn't really 'winning' either though. Germany is about the only solid place at the moment, and let's see how long that lasts everything in this country is complicated and expensive and I don't think that will last the recession...I hold that they should start making cutbacks now very slowly to avoid austerity measures, but unfortunately things really only get done by consensus and our country is run by elderly people who dislike change, so it wont happen.

I could move back to Canada. It might be ok there if Stephen Harper doesn't manage to ruin things. Recession is inevitable there too because it does not exist in a vacuum that is not affected by the world economy, but at least they have pretty solid regulation and lots and lots of resources.

[Ophidia]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

Everyone seems to think there is some kind of major cataclysm or revolution or something headed our way.

I'm a moderate when it comes to the future. I don't see things as being much different in 25 or 50 or even 100 years from now. The poor will probably get poorer, the rich will probably get richer. We may be able to 'print' body parts on 3D printers (hell, we've got a 'skin gun' now), there may be an even greater saturation of advertising, more surveillance cameras on every corner, your t.v. may be watching you to see what products you're wearing and using while watching shorter t.v. shows that are more heavily laced with commercials and product placement... the average lifespan will probably get a little longer, GM foods and 'cloned' meats will probably be our only food choice, especially as ranch property gets eaten up by human housing... we'll probably all be walking around using respirators because we'll have finally tapped the Alaskan wilderness for its oil rather than cave into the Green Movement.

Overall, people will still be people. We'll still be fighting for equal rights for some portion of the population, we'll still be arguing over when a cluster of cells becomes a human being, we'll still be debating over religion vs. science. All you really have to do is look back 100 years and see what we were doing then - pretty much the same stuff we do now, only our stuff is shinier.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

I don't think there's a cataclysm... I just think that we're headed for an overall decline.

LOL and I hope GM foods aren't our only options....at least not in my lifetime. I'm so sensitive to most of them

[Ophidia]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

Between cross-contamination, lowered organic farming yields and the growing population, we'll be lucky if all our food isn't Soylent Green in 50 or so years, Danie :P

People, stop breeding, srsly!

[anunitu]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

As I see it the biggist problem looming is population..The planet can only provide food and water(clean water) for a certain number of people. If anything like population control isn't used,most likely it will come to just eather war,or proactive elimination of groups the other groups think are not worthy of sharing the planet with. It is a scary future if we don't hold the population down within reason.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

Between cross-contamination, lowered organic farming yields and the growing population, we'll be lucky if all our food isn't Soylent Green in 50 or so years, Danie :P

People, stop breeding, srsly!

lol not our problem over here for sure...Germany has one of the fastest declining populations and lowest birth rates in the world.

What's really going to get us in a couple of years is the elderly. Public pension plans in Europe like everywhere else were really set up when people lived to be about 70. You used to be able to collect pension at 65 and they raised it to 67, but with a largely aging population who are living a lot longer, that's not going to cut it. I'm already just assuming that I'll need to save up for my own retirement.

Back to the lack of farmland though, it doesn't have to be that way in the US if they could manage to get better policy regarding land use. In the EU farmers for produce like tomatoes as well as farmers and producers who make traditional foods are subsidized (to keep it competitive with corporate food) and population density here is MUCH MUCH higher, and we still have farms. This is largely because of how land is managed. I'm not sure how each country deals with it, but in Germany when your land is zoned as a farm, it is really difficult to have it not be a farm. If it's a park, it's nearly impossible...so that kind of keeps land the way it is. It's also a matter of attitudes toward space...people don't expect to have huge yards here and are more inclined to live in cities (also helps that people hate commuting) so you don't have a lot of urban sprawl...when a German city ends, it ends. This is especially clear in Berlin, where the city is bordered by farm and parks, both of which are pretty much stuck that way :P There are a few neighbouring towns that border us (Potsdam, Oranienburg, Teltow and Strasburg) but mostly the city ends and it's just farmland or forest.

Anyway I know that's easier said than done, and Americans are usually pretty adverse to the government making those sorts of policies, but it wouldn't hurt.

---------- Post added at 05:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:55 PM ----------

Also the US has one of the highest obesity rates and highest food wastage rates in the world...if you could sort that out I don't think food shortages would be as much of an issue in the distant future.

[anunitu]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

There is something on the horizan that is going to change everything,they are close to extending the lifespan or even reverseing the ageing of humans. Think of 8 billion 25 year olds with no jobs.....no one gets old and dies...This is a possability within perhaps 10-20 years.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

it's not that in itself that's a problem....a larger market can possibly mean more goods and services to be produced, which needs people to do it. It all comes down the the economics.

[anunitu]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

And we finelly Exhaust all our resources..you can't make things if everything we use in the process is gone. Hoping they are working on that escape pod to the stars.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

People will always die...immortality is not an option.

Most of the developed world doesn't have a birth rate to match the US either...most of us are declining. Even emerging countries like China and India, while still having higher birth rates, are seeing decreases and the further they advance, the lower the birth rate goes. I think population growth is definitely an important issue, but it's not the hardcore crisis that a lot of people think it is either. If things get out of control, it will likely be in the developing world and yes, it will be a huge problem there. Over here, not really our biggest issue.

As for food, the developing world already can't feed itself, and this isn't (currently) due to lack of food but rather comes down to politics and economics. The world currently still produces a surplus of food, but whether or not everyone can access that food is a different matter.

I think gluttony and food wastage are HUGE issues in the developed world, as is lack of education about food and a 'convenience' attitude toward food. We could definitely eat in better ways if the above weren't an issue. In Europe, this is being addressed by changing people's attitudes towards 'best by' dates (you can still use a lot of food after and it's a large contributor to wastage) and combating rising obesity rates. In North America (Canada included) it feels like people are more gearing toward cheaper fillers, GM foods and all sorts of junk.

But seriously, I was reading in Fast Food Nation how much meat is slaughtered PER DAY in the US, and it's totally disgusting. Seeing as I can make a 12 pound turkey feed 18 people, eat lunch AND dinner for a couple of days with the leftovers, and make the bones and remaining meat into soup for more meals, I don't see how this is possible if everyone stuck to proper servings and didn't waste things, even given the high population of the US and even considering exports (though, most US meat is banned in both the EU and Canada so I'm not sure exactly where it goes to). Hell, I got a 1 kilo chicken for dinner the other day (1 kilo is just over 2 lbs) and I fed myself and my friend for dinner, ate dinner last night, made the rest into a very large pie today and still have bones with a bit of meat left for soup or stock.

[Raphaeline]

Re: Just how screwed are we?

Everyone throughout history thought the apocalypse was right around the corner. Things are good and bad in different ways all the time.