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    Bread Making

    I've been getting back into baking since my surgery, when I had 6 weeks of nothing to do. I've got some good cookbooks, but I tend to skip over a lot of the newer bread-specific cookbooks because they keep mentioning something called 'sponge'.

    I have no idea what they're talking about. The older cookbooks I have don't mention 'sponge', but the newer books utilize a lot of different types of flours where the older ones stick to white flour or, if they're going exotic, maybe whole wheat or rye.

    So, to any of you bread-makers out there, if you utilize a 'sponge', can you please break it down for me in terms I can understand, without resorting to words like 'autolyse'? Do I absolutely, positively have to use 'sponge' if I want to make a loaf of bread with health-food-store flours?

    About the only thing I understand from it is that somehow, 'sponge' gathers native yeast cultures. I don't know if I trust my house's yeast cultures. I mean, I don't have any problem growing mold on stuff if I leave it out on the counter for about three days, but I don't know if I want that kind of culture in my bread. How do I know that any kind of 'starter' or 'sponge' is going to selectively collect the right kind of yeast and not the random stuff that grows on my store-bought breads?
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

    #2
    Re: Bread Making

    A sponge is just a kind of starter, like you use for making sourdough bread. With two small children I don't have time to mess with them but my mother does and she's had really good luck with them. The only kind she makes though are for a couple of types of sourdough which are amazing, I guess it's just a matter of trusting the natrual process to take its course in a healthy way. What grows on your store bought bread isn't yeast but mold and I suppose if you have problems with mold or such in your home due to your climate then you might be more carefull. My mother keeps her starters and sponges in the frig so as long as you don't have any outdated food lingering there shouldn't be anything hanging around in there to contaminate your starter. Starters can go on about forever but sponges have a shorter life from what I've read.

    My favorite basic white loaf (no sponge or starter) comes from Nigella Lawson's How to be a Domestic Goddess. She calls for bread flour, I believe, but I just use all purpose flour and it turns out fab.
    )O( Blessed Be )O(
    Raven Rin

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      #3
      Re: Bread Making

      Originally posted by Raven_Rin View Post
      A sponge is just a kind of starter, like you use for making sourdough bread.
      See, this is my problem w/newer bread cookbooks. The recipes always start out with "Take your sponge and add..."

      Nothing seems to tell me how much water, flour, sugar, elf blood or unicorn horn shavings I need to actually mix up a batch of this 'sponge', or how long it's supposed to sit around waiting for the yeast to grow on it, or what I should look for to know the sponge is successful, or how long is too long, or how I can tell if I've got the wrong species of yeast all up in my fridge.

      Even Alton Brown is of no help to me, or I just can't find the 'right' Alton Brown video.
      The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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        #4
        Re: Bread Making

        It's strange these recipes are just starting with a sponge. A sponge isn't nesscarily the same as a sourdough start, either. Often, a sponge is as simple as taking warm purified water(usually half the recipe's liquid)the yeast for the recipe, and about a cup ofthe total flour, then letting those sit for a couple of hours, giving the yeast a head start on the recipe

        If you let it sit longer, 24 hours, you'd have a mild sourdough start. If you started to use part (usually around3/4 of a cup) and replace it with more filtered water and flour every 3-4 days, then you would have a basic old school sourdough start. I've had much better luck with those in humid areas, though. Here,they eventually seem prone to mold...the smell changes and it's pretty obvious.
        Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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          #5
          Re: Bread Making

          Originally posted by Dez View Post
          It's strange these recipes are just starting with a sponge. A sponge isn't necessarily the same as a sourdough start, either. Often, a sponge is as simple as taking warm purified water (usually half the recipe's liquid), the yeast for the recipe, and about a cup of the total flour, then letting those sit for a couple of hours, giving the yeast a head start on the recipe

          If you let it sit longer, 24 hours, you'd have a mild sourdough start. If you started to use part (usually around3/4 of a cup) and replace it with more filtered water and flour every 3-4 days, then you would have a basic old school sourdough start. I've had much better luck with those in humid areas, though. Here,they eventually seem prone to mold...the smell changes and it's pretty obvious.

          Ahhh, thank you! I kept thinking to myself that 'sponge' was just starter, but the starter I've used for quick breads (well, one quickbread - Amish Friendship Bread) is usually more of a thick gravy consistency, not like a loose doughball that the books hint at. I've also been worried about the sourdough aspect, because sourdough tastes hideous to me. And if I'm making the sponge w/yeast, I don't have to be too concerned about it picking up alien lifeforms.

          In fact, if that's all there is to it, I could probably just skip the sponge thing altogether & make up the material sponge amount with the basic ingredients.
          The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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            #6
            Re: Bread Making

            Yep, pretty much!

            I start out a lot of my recipes with a sponge from the ingredients, even if it doesn't call for it, because my kitchen is pretty cold this time of year. If I just added the yeast when I mixed everything together, I'd be waiting all day for the first rise!
            Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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              #7
              Re: Bread Making

              Dez,

              What I do this time of year to get a good rise is I have a table over one of the heater vents. I cover my dough bowl with greased plastic wrap and then a warm wet tea towel. I place this on the table sitting in a bowl of warmed water. If you got good yeast it takes about 30 minutes for the first rise to double this way.

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                #8
                Re: Bread Making

                Ooo...I'm going to need to try that! We've been waking up to ice on the insides of our windows, so you can imagine how much trouble I've been having!
                Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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                  #9
                  Re: Bread Making

                  UGH! Yeah I remember that from last winter, could barely get the house warm let alone the kitchen. Friend up here taught me that when I was complaining about having to proof the bread in the oven.

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                    #10
                    Re: Bread Making

                    What I've been doing is heating the oven up & putting the bread on top of it. It's one of those older gas ranges, so the oven 'vents' through one of the back burners. It stays toasty for awhile, even after I turn the oven back off.

                    I made the mistake of putting the bread bowl over that burner the first time I tried it, and it baked on the bottom. D'oh!
                    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                      #11
                      Re: Bread Making

                      Wow, bread making is a hell of a lot more complicated than I thought it was. Here I am thinking imma start making my own delicious bread in an hour or so. Psht.

                      Thanks for all the advice though.
                      Please disregard typos in above post. I browse the web on a Nook and i suck at typing on touch screens.

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                        #12
                        Re: Bread Making

                        It's really not all that complicated - it's flour, water, salt & yeast in the right proportions, and the time to let it rise a few times before baking. Basic white bread, or French bread, is super easy... and once I did away with the 'sponge' issue, I make all the 'artisan breads' all the time now.
                        The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                          #13
                          Re: Bread Making

                          Is it more complicated to add things like rosemary or maybe olives or seeds?
                          Please disregard typos in above post. I browse the web on a Nook and i suck at typing on touch screens.

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                            #14
                            Re: Bread Making

                            Here's my 2 cents on bread baking. I use a book called Baking Artisan Bread: 10 expert formulas for baking better bread at home. I've been baking bread myself for about 10 years now but never got a loaf that was simply "to die for". When I got this book about 3 years ago, that all changed. I've never made better bread and it's due to this guys scientific approach. It makes it more "tedious" but I think it's worth it.

                            There are 2 main categories of starters - sponges and sourdough starters. They are also called "pre-ferments". Of the sponges, there are basic sponges, poolish and biga. Poolish is very wet - a gooey mixture you can't handle. Biga is fairly stiff, more like a moist bread dough. I'm sure there are others, but those are the one I use.

                            I've probably followed a dozen recipes for focaccia in my baking career. None can compare with the one started with the poolish from this book. The night before (16 hours to be exact), I mix equal weights flour and water and a pinch of yeast. The next day, I add the poolish to the rest of the dough ingredients. The next day process takes about 4 or 5 hours, most of it just sitting around waiting. Everything in this book takes forever (bagels take 3 days) but for me it's worth it. I've tried to skip the pre-ferments and the bread is much 'flatter' in taste and texture.



                            Another thing about this book that really shocked me is the use of measurements. It does everything in grams. It also has listed the volume measurements in case you don't have a scale. After making the focaccia a couple of times using weights, I did it once using the volume. My flour is dense because of the moisture it absorbs from our humidity, so the same volume as the stated weight was MORE flour. The dough using the volume measurements was completely different and the bread was not nearly as good - way too dense. A problem I used to always have with recipes! Now when I use a recipe not in that book, I convert 1 cup to be the weight he states.

                            Just_Wondering, adding things is pretty easy too. Usually, you just fold those in at the last minute. Olive bread is the best! YUM!
                            The Pagan Porch - a Pagan Homesteading forum

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                              #15
                              Re: Bread Making

                              Wow, that looks beautiful. Thank you! I think my birthday present's going to be that lovely bread book.
                              Please disregard typos in above post. I browse the web on a Nook and i suck at typing on touch screens.

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