This thread is for questions about Japanese pronunciation, grammar, etymology, etc. I've intended this to be supplementary to kijani's The Japanese Language Learning Thread (v2.0), so please ask any major questions about learning Japanese there. This is more for unusual, uncommon, or particularly difficult questions that would just bog that thread down or send it on an unrecoverable tangent.
Generally speaking, I'm going to be using IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) to transcribe pronunciation in this thread since it's the easiest way to convey how these words/sounds should be said. If you're not familiar with IPA you can find out about how to read it on Wikipedia here: IPA
You can also check Wikipedia's specific articles for consonants and vowels, which are handy because they have audio clips to help you get a better idea of the sounds.
Consonants
Vowels
I realize that Wikipedia is a spurious source under most circumstances, but the pages I've linked are reliable (or reliable enough) for my intended purpose.
Also, just to make it clear, when I type a symbol in brackets -- [n] -- that is its phonetic value (as close as I can approximate it to how it's actually said. If I type a symbol in slashes -- /n/ -- that is its phonemic value (the sound a native speaker associates it with, which may or may not be the same as how it's actually said). If I type a symbol in squiggly brackets -- {n} -- that's the orthographic transcription of the sound (i.e. how you spell it when writing it normally).
So, if you have a question about Japanese words or language and you're having trouble getting an answer (or don't understand the answer you're getting), then I'll gladly do my best to answer it for you here.
どうぞ、よろしく。
---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------
This question comes from my intro thread here.
Japanese pronunciation is at the same time very easy and harder than you think. Like with most languages, though, it's very intuitive once you've spoken it as your primary language for long enough. Most of the changes in pronunciation that you're talking about are to make it easier to say certain words. You frequently will get situations where the unvoiced consonant in the second part of a compound word is vocalized (such as the /s/ in saru turning into a /z/ in my screen name) simply because it's easier to say it that way.
This is a standard feature of most languages' phonetic structure. It's easier to say voiced consonants (especially stops and fricatives) that come between two voiced sounds (most prominently vowels) than it is to say their voiceless counterpart. Since you're already engaging your vocal cords when saying the sounds on either side of the consonant in question, the voicing naturally bleeds over into it. This is why we say [kʰ aɹz] instead of [kʰ aɹs] (unless you consciously soften that final {s}).
This shows up in a lot of Japanese compound words. For example, there's a whole category of words where you just repeat a term to basically mean "a whole helluva lot of that". {様々} /samazama/ is based on a doubling of the word that means "appearance, likeness, in the manner of" and so basically is like saying "a whole helluva lot of likenesses" and comes across with a meaning of "various, all sorts, every kind of [something]". Another example is {方々} /katagata/, which is a douling of a word which can mean "way, method" or "person" in formal circumstances. This is a very formal way of saying "people" (usually of people in general, or a large group).
If you notice, both of those words end up vocalizing the initial sound of the repeated word. /s/ becomes /z/ and /k/ becomes /g/.
For your specific question, though, we have to look at another aspect of Japanese compound words. The characters that make up {日本} are separately pronounced /nichi/ and /hon/. In compound words, {日} is often pronounced as either /ni/ or {にっ} [ ni ̚ ]. If you're familiar with basic Japanese writing, you'll recognize that {っ} as a mark that the following sound will be doubled. The different pronunciations of {日本} are a result of these two different ways of inserting {日} into a compound. If you read it as /ni/ then the word becomes /nihon/. Since you can't really double an /h/, if you read it as [ ni ̚ ], then the /h/ is pronounced as a /p/ and the word becomes /nipːon/.
If that didn't quite make sense, then I'd recommend that you take a look at a Japanese syllabary/pronunciation chart to see how the sounds are related. (In Japanese, /h/ sounds are phonemically linked to /p/ and /b/.)
I hope that answered your question. Let me know if that wasn't clear, or if you have some questions about my explanation.
Generally speaking, I'm going to be using IPA (International Phonetic Alphabet) to transcribe pronunciation in this thread since it's the easiest way to convey how these words/sounds should be said. If you're not familiar with IPA you can find out about how to read it on Wikipedia here: IPA
You can also check Wikipedia's specific articles for consonants and vowels, which are handy because they have audio clips to help you get a better idea of the sounds.
Consonants
Vowels
I realize that Wikipedia is a spurious source under most circumstances, but the pages I've linked are reliable (or reliable enough) for my intended purpose.
Also, just to make it clear, when I type a symbol in brackets -- [n] -- that is its phonetic value (as close as I can approximate it to how it's actually said. If I type a symbol in slashes -- /n/ -- that is its phonemic value (the sound a native speaker associates it with, which may or may not be the same as how it's actually said). If I type a symbol in squiggly brackets -- {n} -- that's the orthographic transcription of the sound (i.e. how you spell it when writing it normally).
So, if you have a question about Japanese words or language and you're having trouble getting an answer (or don't understand the answer you're getting), then I'll gladly do my best to answer it for you here.
どうぞ、よろしく。
---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:57 PM ----------
Originally posted by Jembru
View Post
Japanese pronunciation is at the same time very easy and harder than you think. Like with most languages, though, it's very intuitive once you've spoken it as your primary language for long enough. Most of the changes in pronunciation that you're talking about are to make it easier to say certain words. You frequently will get situations where the unvoiced consonant in the second part of a compound word is vocalized (such as the /s/ in saru turning into a /z/ in my screen name) simply because it's easier to say it that way.
This is a standard feature of most languages' phonetic structure. It's easier to say voiced consonants (especially stops and fricatives) that come between two voiced sounds (most prominently vowels) than it is to say their voiceless counterpart. Since you're already engaging your vocal cords when saying the sounds on either side of the consonant in question, the voicing naturally bleeds over into it. This is why we say [kʰ aɹz] instead of [kʰ aɹs] (unless you consciously soften that final {s}).
This shows up in a lot of Japanese compound words. For example, there's a whole category of words where you just repeat a term to basically mean "a whole helluva lot of that". {様々} /samazama/ is based on a doubling of the word that means "appearance, likeness, in the manner of" and so basically is like saying "a whole helluva lot of likenesses" and comes across with a meaning of "various, all sorts, every kind of [something]". Another example is {方々} /katagata/, which is a douling of a word which can mean "way, method" or "person" in formal circumstances. This is a very formal way of saying "people" (usually of people in general, or a large group).
If you notice, both of those words end up vocalizing the initial sound of the repeated word. /s/ becomes /z/ and /k/ becomes /g/.
For your specific question, though, we have to look at another aspect of Japanese compound words. The characters that make up {日本} are separately pronounced /nichi/ and /hon/. In compound words, {日} is often pronounced as either /ni/ or {にっ} [ ni ̚ ]. If you're familiar with basic Japanese writing, you'll recognize that {っ} as a mark that the following sound will be doubled. The different pronunciations of {日本} are a result of these two different ways of inserting {日} into a compound. If you read it as /ni/ then the word becomes /nihon/. Since you can't really double an /h/, if you read it as [ ni ̚ ], then the /h/ is pronounced as a /p/ and the word becomes /nipːon/.
If that didn't quite make sense, then I'd recommend that you take a look at a Japanese syllabary/pronunciation chart to see how the sounds are related. (In Japanese, /h/ sounds are phonemically linked to /p/ and /b/.)
I hope that answered your question. Let me know if that wasn't clear, or if you have some questions about my explanation.
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