Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

    Originally posted by Hoho View Post
    my japanese is teh suckzors (since I haven't used it in forever), but one thing is since this is a letter, don't mix what books call plain and polite form. Like the first shinjirarerani should be shinjiraremasen. You should add a desu at the end of 日本語のレブルはどれか知らないから, should probably also change the wa to ga in that sentence, don't ask me why! Maybe add some commas after もしかして日本人友だちが二人いるので and の学習者と比べte, and finish with yoku wakarimasen.

    I'm sure they understand the gist of it if anythings really far off
    Thanks! Although I should probably have explained that this was a public forum comment. The tone seems to be something like you'd see in an office. A blend of casual to create friendly, 'we're together in this' feeling, but plenty desu and masu because, 'we're professionals here'.. or so it seems to me. I agree with the 日本語のレブルはどれか知らないから being too informal, although I think I'd prefer to use the masu form and keep kara as a tag on, to keep that, friendly but not too friendly feeling! I really do slip into casual style too much though and I wouldn't have noticed if you hadn't pointed that out. I don't have friends on this forum and I'm not well known, so maybe polite is better for now?

    I struggled to make up my mind about wa or ga there. Ga is always used with a question word, and I've used dore, but I think the rule is it's always ga after an interrogative. Ga sounded wrong at the time of writing, but now I think about it, ga emphasises the part of the sentence before the particle, wa draws attention to what follows.. is my level the important part here, or the question I'm pondering? I dunno, they both sound right, but that makes it two votes for ga, so ga it is!! ^^. In casual Japanese, it's often fine to drop topic and subject markers, so I'm lazy. If I don't know, I leave it out, so just don't learn!

    Thanks for the feedback, your advice is always gratefully received!
    夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

      Just checked and I've had a reply! Apparently no one uses 可也 or 碌々, which is why I need to stick to my 'If I don't know the kanji, I won't type it' rule from now on! Otherwise, the feedback was that my level is probably higher than I think (and I used hotondo right after all, apparently)... oh and I need to work on my confidence. I should put THAT on the fridge.


      Originally posted by Natsuko(奈津子)
      自分が思っているより、レベルが高いのかもしれませんね! 自信をもってがんばりましょう!
      Weirdly, she never mentioned my politeness or the use of wa, but I think she's going easy on me ^^

      Oh, and I used wo with wakarimasu.. oopse. That was just dumb..

      Good learning experience though!
      夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

        jp will never tell you what you do wrong grammar-wise. they're too nice.

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

          Originally posted by Hoho View Post
          jp will never tell you what you do wrong grammar-wise. they're too nice.
          This. A million times.
          my etsy store
          My blog


          "...leave me curled up in my ball,
          surrounded by plush, downy things,
          ill prepared, but willing,
          to descend."

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

            Tell me about it. This is probably my most repeated rant on here: that I have to ASK if something is right or wrong. That's why I had to ask specific thing like, 'did I use 'hotondo' correctly?' because although I often use it like I did above, the lack of correction is not proof that I'm uing it right. I frequently hear it modifying other nouns, 'hotondo no nihonjin...' (almost all Japanese people...) so I wasn't sure if it could stand alone without something to modify.

            There are some things the Japanese will almost alway correct you on though. They will tell you if you use an expression that is too polite, maybe because it embarrasses them, and I've noticed that if you are male and speak in textbook Japanese or learnt from your Japanese gf, they won't hold back in pointing out that you sound like a girl. In the case of my colleagues it was quite directly 'you sound like a girl when you speak.. hahaha too cute!' or in more polite interchanges they'll subtly ask, 'is your girlfriend Japanese?', because it's quite common knowledge that if a foreign male lives with a Japanese female, he'll inadvertenly pick up her speaking style. I have some fun anecdotes along these lines ^^

            Anyway, Natsuko is better than most at least, because she is actually a teacher and she is being paid to improve the Japanese of students. There was quite a lot in her feedback. She told me to continue writing comments in Japanese as I go through the lessons and she'll correct it for me. All the same, I think I'll keep adding specific questions after everything I write, so she is forced to comment! In earlier levels, I noticed that learners also comment on one another's mistakes, which is great because Westerners aren't usually as diplomatic and some people even thrive on pointing out other people's mistakes so you can be sure if something's wrong, someone will notice and tell you! Sadly, after lower intermediate, this seems to stop. I guess because non of us are confident enough anymore. There's only the Japanese staff and the non-native speaking teachers, Peter and Jessie.
            夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

              Here's one I'm too shy to ask somewhere where people aren't used to me being odd..

              We like to talk for Magpie in a cute baby voice and she speaks both English and Japanese (because her parents do, naturally!). It is snowing and in the morning Magpie will probably want to express that this is the first time she has encountered snow.

              However, if I wished to express that something has happened for the first time in my life, I would most probably use 'jinsei' so like, 'Kore, jinsei hatsu no yuki na no..'

              But jinsei is written 人生, isn't it? Magpie isn't a 人 she's a 猫. I doubt that 猫生 exists and even if it did, I don't know the on-yomi of neko anyway..

              I know there are other words for 'life' like, I will use 'seikatsu' if I am just talking about my day to day routine existence, and there is at least one other word that I just can't think of, but I think when the meaning is 'the time between birth and death', jinsei is best.

              Any guesses???
              夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                jinsei doesnt work for that situation, its more like really saying "human life", from what i remember from FMA lol.

                what you're looking for is isshou, 一生.

                but then i think you probably dont even need to specify "in my life", the first time ive seen snow should be good enough, the "in my life" seems more just to add emphasis to "first time" in english, to carry the same emphasis into japanese, why not just add a yo or even a zo to the end of 第一回 daiikkai?

                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                  Hey, thanks Hoho! Sorry I didn't reply sooner, but I'm taking a break from PF while I crawl to the finish line of my year long study frenzy. Almost over now. I'm not fluent, but I should still make that video, I mean I can speak Japanese, that's a given. I just don't do it.. well ^^

                  Believe it or not, I only came to this thread to update that I have actually just stumbled upon the answer! I usually do sooner or later, but this seemed a bit too obscure so I'm very surprised. Actually, I keep meaning to make a post in which I explain the answers to things I asked here that went unanswered, but which I have since cleared up. In fact, I'm glad I kept posting even when it was just me here, because I can look back and remember how confused I was back then and how much more I understand now. Like, even the -nakareba..nai vs tara..nai, which was touched on right at the start, I totally appreciate the difference in nuance between these now, when I just used them parrot style, with no thought, a year ago. Like, when I have to work overtime vs I have to take a bath. It's subtle, but I can understand the difference now. So although I failed in my task to become fluent, I can still see how far I have come and that's comforting.

                  So 人生 then... Yes, it can be used by cats! No lie, there was a lesson at jpod101 in the Lower Intermediate section where two cats were talking to one another. By some crazy coincidence, one of the cats said to the other:
                  でも、いつまでも若いままじゃないんだからさ、すこし、考えたら、自分の人生。 (But you won't be this young forever. Why don't you think a little about your future?)

                  I translated 'future' rather than 'life' because it works better in English and I think this illustrates really well what is contained within the word. It's a person's path from womb to tomb and all the details that play out along the way. Seikatsu, I thought about and decided in English we could often use, 'lifestyle' although I do translate it simply as life, 'I miss my life in Japan' I would use seikatsu, rather than jinsei.

                  Your example.. I think it might work because isshouken is very similar in nuance to jinsei in so much as it covers the span of life from birth to death, but I don't think there is emphasis on the details. When I want to understand usage a bit better, I will copy and paste a word and search for sentences. This lets me get a feeling of how a word is used and I can see things like which particles tend to accompany a word and so on. That's how I learnt to use 'ni' with 'kizuku' (to notice), rather than the quotative 'to', which I also thought might work. So I checked isshouken and although it was really commonly used as 'isshoukenmei', so I had to do a lot of digging through those to find examples, I noticed it tends to be used in the past tense when recalling someone's life like..'she dedicated her life to her art', but I also saw it as, 'I will remember your kindness for the rest of my life'. I couldn't find examples like, 'for the first time in my life' or similar, but like I say, isshoukenmei dominated my search so it's not evidence of absence. All the same, I tend to stick to things I am sure about if I can and then add other vocabulary as I become more confident of usage. As a fellow language learner, you probably know yourself that we can usually understand twice as much as we are able (or willing) to say ourselves!

                  Oh the other word I couldn't bring to mind when I posed my question, was inochi 命 This is simply the presence of life. So like, a tree might not move, but it has life. So to have inochi, your heart is beating and your bodily processes are at least mostly, in working order.

                  Daiikai, 第一回 well.. I think in Japanese this is mostly used for the first of a string of repeated events. It's like saying 'round one', actually as you know from the kanji, it IS saying round one (if you ignore 第 which is indicating that it's an ordinal counter).. rounds implying repeated events. Although as ever, just because I haven't heard something used a particular way, doesn't mean it can't be. It would not only be arrogant, but also a sign of serious delusion, the likes of which demand professional attention, for me to claim that I know more than a snipit of this language. To me though, it feels more natural to use 初 (hatsu), when speaking of a first of something that could happen again at some unstated point in time, but is uncertain.

                  It's really interesting to compare usage of kanji in this way as there seems to be subtle differences in how they're used between Chinese and Japanese.

                  Phew.. kuwashikatta ne..

                  I see there is another reply to a Japanese thread.. better check that out too. See, it was worth logging in again because I'm still studying, kinda...
                  夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                    Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                    Your example.. I think it might work because isshouken is very similar in nuance to jinsei.....

                    Daiikai, 第一回 well.. I think in Japanese this is mostly used for the first of a string of repeated events.
                    Oopse Isshou daiikkai Sorry, I did say I'm hopeless!!
                    夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                      Here's a stinker.. If anyone can clear this up then you deserve a medal.

                      A friend on youtube was told one of his videos had a mistake in it, but not what the mistake was. So he asked me to take a look. I said that I think the mistake was in the sentence 'tadotadoshii nihongo wo hanasasete kurete arigatou.' I said that I THINK to use wo there, the adjective needs to be in it's adverbial form 'tadotadoshiku..', so that it modifies hanasu not nihongo. If you want to keep it in the adjective form, then wo should be replaced by de. 'speak with broken Japanese'. Also, wo with the causative usually marks the receiver of the action and implies force rather than permission, so I wasn't sure if wo was right there even after the adverbial modifier. I was able to back up my suggestion with real life sentences I found on the net.

                      He asked around and everyone seemed to agree with my analysis. It's wrong because wo was used and not de.

                      BUT no one can explain why. What makes verbs like hanasu and iu so special that they need such different treatment? I mean, take for example, 'yawarakai isu wo katta' that's using wo and had I saiy Yawarakaku isu wo katta, I'd be saying, 'I softly baught the chair', which is a nonsense sentence.

                      And yet, tadotadoshii nihongo wo hanashita, seems to me to be wrong. Is it just me making a mistake? Would tadotadoshii nihongo wo hanasu be okay so long as the causative isn't being used? Or is there something special about speaking and saying, grammatically speaking? We've asked around and no one is quite sure.

                      It's a pity you know, because his video was really quite good otherwise.
                      夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                        Good Afternoon! The name's Simatong (though a certain someone on here calls me Simaton, that name's okay too ). This thread seems interesting, but since no one is chatting on here, I intend to revive it. Actually, I am thinking that the person who created this post knows more about the grammatical rules of Japanese than I do, but I'll try to answer questions about Japanese. I actually want to answer questions about translations for things like titles, lyrics and sentences since I am a translator! Today will be kind of busy, with transcription editing taking about two hours, but should you have question or comments、please feel free to ask. I will write a response when I have time!
                        こんにちは!Simatongと申します!(けれど、ここの誰かさんは私をシマトンと呼んでいるから、その 名前でもいい)このthreadは面白いと思うけど、誰もここでチャットしてないから、僕は雰囲気を回復さ せるつもりだ!実は、このthreadを作った人の方が私より日本語の文法規則について豊富な知識があると 思うけど、日本語についての質問に答えてみる!私は翻訳者なので、タイトル、歌詞、文章などの翻訳について の質問に答えたい!今日はとても忙しくて、トランスクリプションの校正を完成させるのに2時間ぐらいかかる かもしれないけど、質問、コメントなどがあれば、是非聞いてください。私は時間があるときにレスポンスを書 く!

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                          Yey!! Thanks for reviving this. Although you know, I had promised myself I'd keep off the forum for 24 hours to catch up with my lagging studies. Well.. this IS about Japanese, so it kinda counts as study. I'm at work, so I can only copy/paste from jisho.org, so I'll leave the other thread until I can write properly in Japanese.

                          I don't think the OP plans on returning any time soon, so if you want, we can just talk about translating for a while? I'm up for whatever so long as Japanese is the theme. Now and then I'll translate stuff, mainly from audio, but sometimes written Japanese too. As it's only for my own amusement, or to consolidate what I think I have heard into a clearer translation, again for my own personal benefit, it's not something I try to develop as a skill.

                          The biggest issue I have is in making the English translation sound natural. As an amature who's never studied translation, I tend to be far too literal and write down what they say (although I do have a half-decent awareness of idiomatic expressions) and it can come over as very stiff and unnatural, despite it being my mother tongue. I notice when JP watches anime that the quality of translation varies massively. Sometimes they will word things very differently to the original Japanese, so that the emotion of the scene, or the character conveyed through mannor of speech translates rather than the exact meanings of the sentences. I think this, if done well, is a sign of a good translator. Someone hasn't just looked at the written script and rewritten it into their mother tongue, but they have actually asked themselves what is most important to translate: meaning, or feeling, in order to give the audience the experience the writers originally intended. I don't think I could do that. As passionate as I am about language, I don't think poetically, but rather take words at face value.

                          On the other hand, I have seen some terrible translations. For example, sometimes you see people translate things literally. Like a character saying (forgive the romaji) 'omae no hana, heshioru!' will be subbed as 'I'm gonna break your nose', despite it being obvious from the context that he meant this in the metaphorical sense of, 'I'll bring you down to size'. Well, I'd be in this category of translator, which is why it's not an ambition of mine.

                          So, how do make your translations sound natural? I'll give you an example of something I translated, so you can see for yourself what I mean about being literal and stiff.. (it's on the other forum, so you might have seen it).

                          I translated this Minecraft song:




                          何をやっても楽しめる マインクラフト。(You can enjoy yourself doing anything, Minecraft)
                          家建てたり穴掘ったり マインクラフト (Building houses, digging holes, Minecraft)
                          明るいうちに働いて夜 は眠って。(Work while it's light and sleep when it's night)
                          少しずつ開拓するの マインクラフト (Little by little, you reclaim the land, Minecraft)


                          家を建てるとき松明つけて (Attach torches while building your house)
                          屋根の上もそう忘れないでね。(and don't forget to put them on the roof!)

                          仲間たちと町を作る マインクラフト (Create a town with your friends, Minecraft)
                          でがいオブジェのクオリティ プロの犯行 (The quality of a great work of art: an outstanding achievment)
                          落ちたら二度と出られないお堀もあるの (There's also a moat that you can't get out of if you fall in)
                          とても立派なマンションも前川ビュタも (there's even a magnificent mansion, and floating islands*)


                          ワクワクしながら、世界を歩く (I walk excitedly around the world)
                          たまにFPS腕を磨こう (now and then, I improve my First Person Shooter skills)


                          何をやっても楽しめる マインクラフト。(You can enjoy yourself doing anything, Minecraft)
                          家建てたり穴掘ったり マインクラフト (building houses, digging holes, Minecraft)
                          暗いうちにプレイしたら、いつのまにか朝 (if you play while it's dark, before you know it it's morning)
                          眠らずに開拓するの マインクラフト (Without sleeping, the land is cultivated, Minecraft)

                          *this is gamer slang and refers to the way the world in minecraft sometimes generates floating sections of biomes not attached to anything.

                          It's weird how I manage to pick up on the idoms, and yet can't make direct translations sound natural. How would you reword my English to make it sound better?

                          I was going to link the short translation I made for a youtube video I posted in the minecraft thread (this forum), but the laptop is lagging and it's annoying me having to type with no words on the screen, while it catches up. So I have to stop here.
                          夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                            Excuse the double post. I just thought of something I had wanted to add to my last message, but I couldn't because the laptop was being crappy at work. I haven't the time to do Japanese and English (that post yesterday took ages, because I had to keep scrolling back to see what I'd written: I'd forgotten I hate writing bilingual posts). I'll reply to the other thread in Japanese when I have time though.

                            Right firstly. I thought of an instance where I have done translations from writing. Did you see in the other forum that we have a whole thread just for translations? It's mainly just me and Abby (midori) who post in there, and as we're of a similar level (although Abby is a bit ahead of me and her verbal skills are way beyond mine: she doesn't 'umm.. umm... umm...' like I do, and she doesn't slur her grammar in every single sentence either!^^) we can't always tell if one another's translation is correct or not. http://japanese.freeforums.org/trans...ctice-t47.html. You can see in my first reply, that if I translate, it tends to be from verbal dialogues, but Abby managed to get me to play properly.

                            I actually asked a translation question on the final page and as no one has suggested an answer, I thought maybe you could take a look?

                            Finally, I'd wanted to show you the short youtube video I recently translated for a post I made on this forum (minecraft thread). If I had known a translator was about to join the forum when I wrote it, I'd have put a bit more effort into it, but I thought I was just jotting down the gist for English speakers..

                            Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                            The Japanese are very fond of making short movies or anime series with Minecraft. It would be pointless sharing one of those here, but here is a trailer for one that is apparently due to be released next Spring (it's short and the dialogue isn't important, but I'll quickly translate):



                            'Well Horio*, that's enough playing for today. Right?'
                            'Okay, I should probably go to bed. Goodnight!'
                            'Lats play again tomorrow.'

                            ........Cat spells out 'Dreamcraft'

                            'Where am I?'

                            Titles: Lost in a world
                            All alone
                            Living in a dream
                            Limited time
                            Irreplaceable

                            (no, makes no sense to me either but that's probably just my crappy translating).

                            'Dreamcraft: a story in dream. Starts spring, 2014.

                            Then he says 'ouch' a lot.

                            *I think the dog's name is from the word 'horu' to dig or mine, which is a clever name for a minecraft dog.

                            (this translation was brought to you by Jembru Essential Communications ltd.)
                            Hey, seems I have enough material to keep up a conversation about translating for a while yet! ^^
                            夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                              Originally posted by Jembru View Post
                              Yey!! Thanks for reviving this. Although you know, I had promised myself I'd keep off the forum for 24 hours to catch up with my lagging studies. Well.. this IS about Japanese, so it kinda counts as study. I'm at work, so I can only copy/paste from jisho.org, so I'll leave the other thread until I can write properly in Japanese.

                              I don't think the OP plans on returning any time soon, so if you want, we can just talk about translating for a while? I'm up for whatever so long as Japanese is the theme. Now and then I'll translate stuff, mainly from audio, but sometimes written Japanese too. As it's only for my own amusement, or to consolidate what I think I have heard into a clearer translation, again for my own personal benefit, it's not something I try to develop as a skill.

                              The biggest issue I have is in making the English translation sound natural. As an amature who's never studied translation, I tend to be far too literal and write down what they say (although I do have a half-decent awareness of idiomatic expressions) and it can come over as very stiff and unnatural, despite it being my mother tongue. I notice when JP watches anime that the quality of translation varies massively. Sometimes they will word things very differently to the original Japanese, so that the emotion of the scene, or the character conveyed through mannor of speech translates rather than the exact meanings of the sentences. I think this, if done well, is a sign of a good translator. Someone hasn't just looked at the written script and rewritten it into their mother tongue, but they have actually asked themselves what is most important to translate: meaning, or feeling, in order to give the audience the experience the writers originally intended. I don't think I could do that. As passionate as I am about language, I don't think poetically, but rather take words at face value.

                              On the other hand, I have seen some terrible translations. For example, sometimes you see people translate things literally. Like a character saying (forgive the romaji) 'omae no hana, heshioru!' will be subbed as 'I'm gonna break your nose', despite it being obvious from the context that he meant this in the metaphorical sense of, 'I'll bring you down to size'. Well, I'd be in this category of translator, which is why it's not an ambition of mine.

                              So, how do make your translations sound natural? I'll give you an example of something I translated, so you can see for yourself what I mean about being literal and stiff.. (it's on the other forum, so you might have seen it).

                              I translated this Minecraft song:




                              何をやっても楽しめる マインクラフト。(You can enjoy yourself doing anything, Minecraft)
                              家建てたり穴掘ったり マインクラフト (Building houses, digging holes, Minecraft)
                              明るいうちに働いて夜 は眠って。(Work while it's light and sleep when it's night)
                              少しずつ開拓するの マインクラフト (Little by little, you reclaim the land, Minecraft)


                              家を建てるとき松明つけて (Attach torches while building your house)
                              屋根の上もそう忘れないでね。(and don't forget to put them on the roof!)

                              仲間たちと町を作る マインクラフト (Create a town with your friends, Minecraft)
                              でがいオブジェのクオリティ プロの犯行 (The quality of a great work of art: an outstanding achievment)
                              落ちたら二度と出られないお堀もあるの (There's also a moat that you can't get out of if you fall in)
                              とても立派なマンションも前川ビュタも (there's even a magnificent mansion, and floating islands*)


                              ワクワクしながら、世界を歩く (I walk excitedly around the world)
                              たまにFPS腕を磨こう (now and then, I improve my First Person Shooter skills)


                              何をやっても楽しめる マインクラフト。(You can enjoy yourself doing anything, Minecraft)
                              家建てたり穴掘ったり マインクラフト (building houses, digging holes, Minecraft)
                              暗いうちにプレイしたら、いつのまにか朝 (if you play while it's dark, before you know it it's morning)
                              眠らずに開拓するの マインクラフト (Without sleeping, the land is cultivated, Minecraft)

                              *this is gamer slang and refers to the way the world in minecraft sometimes generates floating sections of biomes not attached to anything.

                              It's weird how I manage to pick up on the idoms, and yet can't make direct translations sound natural. How would you reword my English to make it sound better?

                              I was going to link the short translation I made for a youtube video I posted in the minecraft thread (this forum), but the laptop is lagging and it's annoying me having to type with no words on the screen, while it catches up. So I have to stop here.
                              ポストは長いかもしれない。自然な翻訳はそれぞれの言葉に当たる英語の翻訳を考え出すというコンセプトじゃ なくて、原文を分析してnative speakerの観点から文を英語に訳すということです
                              たとえば、「いつもお世話になりました」というのは誰かが同僚やビジネスマンなどの人に[サンキュー」というe-mailとかを書いて送りたいときに使われるフレーズで、thank you for taking care of meなどという意味になるけど、アメリカ人としては、英語の訳はちょっと変です。誰かのおかげでイベントな どが行えたりしたら、英語で[Thank you for your help] と言うだろう。でも、thank you for taking care of meは「子供を世話する」などというニュアンスを持っているでしょ?だから、上の日本語の文を訳すためにn ative speakerとしてどうやってこういう文を訳すかについて考えたらいい。私なら、文をthank you for (all) your help!とか訳す.
                              マインクラフトについてのダイアログを訳しているとき「自然さ」というコンセプトや「文章の目的」について も考えたほうがいいと思う。
                              たとえば,何をやっても楽しめる マインクラフトという文がある。マインクラフトはゲームです。ゲームの世 界にいるとに楽しいことをする。だから、[You'll have fun IN Minecraft no matter what you do]と訳したほうが自然です。そして、私はyouを使った。これは広告のビデオみたいなんで、Youはマインク ラフトという世界で遊びたい人です。 こんばんは友達とバーに行ってくる。帰ってからほかの文章を訳します !

                              This post might be kind of long. A natural translation isn't a concept where you come up with the English equivalent of every word. Rather, it is something where you analyze the original sentence and then translate from the perspective of a native speaker. For example, お世話になりました can be used when you want to write and send a thank you message to someone like a colleague, and while it can be translated as, "Thank you for taking care of me", as an American, I find that sentence to be somewhat odd. If you are able to do an event thanks to someone's help, in English you would probably say "Thank you for your help". However, "Thank you for taking care of me" carries the connotation of taking care of a child or a sick person, no? Therefore, in order to translate the above Japanese sentence, you have to think about how you would translate this as a native speaker, and if it were me, I would translate it as "Thank you (all) your help!"
                              When it comes to translating dialogue about Minecraft, you should also think about "naturalness" and "the intention of the sentences".
                              For example, there is the sentence 何をやっても楽しめる マインクラフ. Minecraft is a game, and people who enter the world of games do fun things, so translating the sentence as "You'll have fun IN Minecraft no matter what you do" sounds more natural. Also, I used the word "you", and that is because the video seems like an advertisement, and the "you" refers to the people who want to play in the world of Minecraft.
                              I will be heading out to the bar with a friend of mine, but will be back, and when I come back, I will translate the rest of the sentences
                              *The following not in the original Japanese*
                              Another tip: When translating, translate from the heart. That is to say, when you analyze a sentence and understand what it means, ask yourself "If I were someone reading this translation, how would I want it to sound. And more importantly, as a native English speaker, what words would sound more natural to me?" Many people fall into the trap of translating every single word. The trick to a beautiful translation is knowing when to stay true to the text and when to stay true to the message in the text, while always keeping in mind that you are not just translating the words of a document or sentence, you are transforming them into words that are culturally meaningful and appropriate for your target audience. Finding the balance takes time, but that is why I would say, look at translating like you do witch/pagan work. Put enough emotion into it so that it becomes a part of you, because in truth, our translations are a part of us, and we all have unique ways of expressing our souls. I hope this didn't sound too fluffy. LOL. Have a good evening.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Weird / Complicated / Tough Japanese Grammar Questions

                                Trust you to reply now when I have to go out soon ^^. IT's funny, because that line was one of the lines I thought sounded a bit weird. I thought about doing what you did, and ignoring the fact that the verb is in the potential form, but then I couldn't shake the feeling that I was no longer conveying the writer's intention.

                                See, I'd already mentioned in the first message, that seeing translations has made me understand that it's not the meaning, but the intention, that is sometimes best to translate. So I guess it's just something I can't do myself. I used 'you' as well, for the same reason you did, although as some lines seem a little specific, I figured he's half talking about himself (the playing without sleeping, something I think most minecraft players have experienced ^^), so I sometimes used 'I'.

                                The second verse gave me a bit of trouble, The line about the moat threw me for a while, but then it just hit me like a bolt while I was listening to the song and not worrying about the translation. I give in and had to ask a native about the 'professional crime' (who didn't know either, so asked her boyfriend who knew the expression).

                                Oh btw, there were two typos in my translation. I'm sure you'll know what the word was meant to be both times. I noticed them ages ago, but forgot all about it when I copied and pasted the original. ^^

                                The other line I really don't like my translation of is the last line of the first verse. I also wish I'd written 'polish my skills' and not 'improve my skills', because I just forgot that we can use polish in English too, so changed that for no good reason.
                                Last edited by Jembru; 01 Sep 2013, 01:02.
                                夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X