Going Vegan?

[Amelia-Mary]

I'm seriously considering going Vegan, but I don't know how exactly. I'm already a vegetarian and it was a lot easier than I thought, but Vegan is so confusing.

>What can I actually eat?
>What can't I eat?
>Will I have to take protein supplements?
>Should I go into it gradually or go cold turkey like I did with being vegetarian?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated

[FantasyWitch]

Re: Going Vegan?

Vegan is a bad idea.

It's very very difficult to have a full and healthy diet, especially on a budget and I would suggest it is an even worse idea at your age. Limiting your diet in that way is like messing with the cookies before they are even baked.
Vegetarian can be a really easy to maintain generally healthy diet, but Vegan? Nah.

Sorry I have no good advice. I know several really unhealthy vegans who are stick thin and always getting sick.

[thalassa]

Re: Going Vegan?

I'd recommend reading this, its pretty good.


...but I have to sort of agree with FW...most of the people I know that went vegan (particularly in their teens and early 20's) did it very poorly...if you have health problems, its something you should at least sort out with your doc to monitor

[Amelia-Mary]

Re: Going Vegan?

Thanks I'm already void of all Cheese and dairy (Damn lactose intolerance) so I'm kinda halfway there, that'll do for now, but in the future I'm definitely going to look into it, still tempted but I could just do it insanely slowly

[Dez]

Re: Going Vegan?

I was vegan for a few years, and then raw-foods vegans for a while, and I can promise you that the number of real, natural foods you are able to eat reduces dramatically. I am about to be brutally honest, Amelia, and I really hope it doesn't offend...that you can see why I feel as strongly about it as I do.

I'm familiar with all the rhetoric, etc, and I can promise you that human beings were meant to be omnivorous. That can be done in as conscious and caring ways as possible, but still. There are ways to be a consumer of animal products and still be caring and sensitive about it, and this is coming from someone who once felt physically ill about the moral implications of eating meat.

Looking back now? There were ways it was good, but there were other ways that it was bad that I strongly feel outweighed the good:

For one, that sort of restriction as an adolescent, and the psychological implications "fed" my already existing and untreated eating disorder. It took many years and a lot of work to finally start to heal that, and I find now, years later, that if I begin to mentally list foods as "bad" or "good" in the way I did then--for ANY reason-- it pushes all those old buttons and I begin to go into E.D. mode.

Second, a few months ago I was diagnosed with some medical problems that require a high protein, low carb diet. It is impossible to eat a lower carbohydrate diet and eat vegan, especially if you want to avoid some of the issues that seem to be tied to large amounts of unfermented soy. I honestly wonder whether the issues I'm having now would be this bad if I hadn't spent years and years eating primarily simple carbohydrates and fruit as a source of energy. Sure, you have loads of energy, especially when you start...but I personally think that for many that can come at a price down the road.

[Just_Wondering]

Re: Going Vegan?

Going vegan is easy-especially on a budget. It's hard to say what, exactly, a vegan eats because the list is too long. It's easier to simply point out what they don't eat, which is:

Any meat whatsoever, including chicken and fish
Any dairy whatsoever
Honey

Basically anything that requires you to use an animal. I feel sad that the main staple of an omnivorous diet consists mainly of flesh and milk-with maybe some overcooked carrots on the side. That is decidedly *not* a balanced diet.

Veganism is cheaper than eating meat. Go to the store and compare a steak to a bag full of beans and you'll see where the difference is.

Veganforum is a really good site that has tons of recipes and quick easy cheap dishes you can make to get you familiarized with the change. Check out goveg.com's vegan food pyramid to show you a basic overview of what you should be eating.

Cutting out dairy from your diet is awesome! Casting aside the most brilliantly effective marketing campaign the world has ever known ("milk does a body good"), milk is useless and fatty to a grown adult. After all, milk exists to feed babies UNTIL they can start eating solid foods and getting the nutriens themselves.

Did you know that milk contains a chemial that causes yo to become addicted to it? In nature, it's used to keep the baby cow coming back for more milk-it's a survival mechanism. That's why you always hear silly people say "ohhhhh I could never give up cheeeese.

Veganism only becomes expensive when you survive on prepackaged processed faux meats and specialty items. The staples of a vegan diet: fruits, vegetables, beans, rice, pasta, etc. are dirt cheap compared to a package of chicken or steak.

Some ways to reduce costs on even these cheap things include buying dried bans and soaking them yourself overnight, or making your own pasta from flour an water: just mix it, roll it flat with a rolling pin, let it sit for about 10 minues and throw it in boiling water. Lots of asian marketplaces sell rice in huge bags fo about 2 to 5 dollars. Many things can also be grown easily, even in pots. Buy things that are in season, because they're always cheaper.

Some people who go vegan don't eat a balanced diet and can become sick. Thi is true. However, some omnivores don't eat a balanced diet and can bcome sick as well. It's not all one-sided.

It's kind of weird that you're asking for help on how to go vegan and most of what you get is peopl telling you "we're meant to eat meat".

If you need any help, I'll be happy to do my best. Check out veganforum or theppk or goveg.com, and definitely do print out a vegan food pyramid for yourself. You will make mistakes but everyone does and you can know for next time what's not vegan. Look out for whey or casein in fake cheese poducts if you choose to buy them-they are animal-sourced.

Good luck.

[Jembru]

Re: Going Vegan?

I've mentioned before a few times, that I was vegan for about 6 years and although these days I tend to joke about it, I honestly did have a terrifying (for all involved) mental episode. I was having dilusions, self-harming, making nonsense noise and thinking I was actually talking and yes, I convinced myself I was actually Gollum from LOTR (I had only read the Hobbit at this point and the movies weren't out yet ^^).

If you are going to do it, and I don't feel I have the right to influence what goes into another person's body (until I have kids.. when it is my responsibility to teach them how to eat well), you MUST take a vitamin B supplement. Ideally, I timed release B complex. It is healthier to be vegan these days that it was, but it can be an expensive diet if done well, it is time consuming, and few people really eat as well as they should.

I was in a vegan society with people who had been vegan many years, and I must say the people there were not all stick thin with bad hair and no energy. But these people were dedicated and somewhat obsessive about eating a good vegan diet.

Personally, I believe people rely far too much on animal protein and that dairy is unnatural and unnecessary. Ideally, meat should be consumed far less, but at least be present in ones diet (yeah, I know I'm a vegetarian but I am talking about an ideal situation here). I also think that cutting out dairy is best if replaced by a diet rich in fish and seafood, although unfortunately, I can't bring myself to eat anything that once respired. I dislike that I have to consume some dairy (mainly cottage cheese and milk), but I prefer it to eating dead things.

Would you consider instead, switching to a wholefood diet? This is what I try to follow and although I am constantly tweeking it, I think I almost have the right balance now and it is so much cheaper than you'd think (I spend about 15-20 pounds a week on food, which is way less than most people I know). You can switch to organic meat. Although it is more expensive, it is better for you, usually more ethical (but not always; in the UK, we have something called the 'freedom food stamp' that you can look for on meat packages) and as you'll only be eating it a few times a week, it still works out cheaper than a diet that eats poorer quality meat a few times a day.

Good luck, whatever you decide, and be healthy!

[DanieMarie]

Re: Going Vegan?

Yeah I'd second eating less meat and dairy than most do. If you look at serving sizes and recommended servings per day, it's pretty doable even if you get organic meat and dairy.

I'll also second what most others have said...we're meant to be omnivorous, and if you're not, you really have to watch what you eat. You HAVE to take a B12 supplement. You have to watch that you get enough protein, and enough omega-3 oils (actually, if you're veg now and not eating fish, you should probably be watching this already). I hate the stereotype that people who eat meat and dairy don't respect living things and don't care about the planet. There are ways to be sustainable and eat these things, and some vegan things aren't so sustainable either (so much stuff has palm oil, for example, and soy can often be problematic in the way it's farmed). I also have a philosophy that every living thing, plants included, has a spirit, and death is an unfortunate part of survival, but real nonetheless. The point doesn't have to be not killing anything ever, but knowing where your food comes from, respecting that it took resources to grow or farm, and respecting that it was once alive, or came from something alive (eggs, tomatoes, etc).

I think you -can- be healthy as a vegan, but it takes money, planning and resources, and I think it's not such a good bet while you're a teen because you're still growing.

[Just_Wondering]

Re: Going Vegan?

I think if you have the option to live a life where things don't have to die to be on your plate then it's the right option to choose. Coversely, I don't think that humans have the right to objectify animals as though they were created for us to use as we see fit, and as though they do not have the right to live their own lives out without having to serve the human purpose.

Humans have removed themself from the food chain by inventing unfair advantages like guns and metal traps and harpoons and cages. There is no predator to the human because we just blow everything up. Put a human out in the wild with nothing and see how me manages. I would love to see a human try to kill a feral bull with only his teeth and his fingernails.

Furthermore, animals eat other animals because they have no choice. They survive on instinct alone. We were blessed with reasoning and compassion. We have options, so to choose the option that involves death and enslavement seems backwards and morally corrupt.

Most meat eaters have too much protein. Did you know that a vegan diet can reverse heart disease and practically guarantee you will never have a heart attack barring congenital heart problems? More protein isn't necessarily better, and can actually cause kidney disease and osteoporosis.

Here is a list of vegan foods that contain protein:

Beans/soy
Lentils
Nuts
Seeds
Most vegetables
Whole grains
Fruits

Here is a list of essetial fatty acis (omega 3/6, etc. Commonly thought of to ONLY be in fish):

Flaxseeds
Mustard seeds
Hemp seeds
Walnut oil
Green leafy vegetables
Spirulina
Canola oil
Grains

[DanieMarie]

Re: Going Vegan?

All of us have to have something die to end up on our plates. Plants are living things too...

[Just_Wondering]

Re: Going Vegan?

I'm sorry about your allergies! Perhaps you weren't eating the right vegetables, or enough vegetables. What about a multivitamin?
You are indeed a special case, for which I am sure there are a lot of others. Fortunately there are thousands of foods to choose from.

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with vegetarianism. I hope you won't paint the entire movement as bad because of your difficult circumstances.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Going Vegan?

It's a really common allergy actually. I lived off a largely veggie-based diet (I didn't grow up eating processed foods and stuff). You NEED high protein sources and unfortunately I'm allergic to pretty much all of them. I can eat spinach, quinoa and stuff until the cows come home but it's not enough and I get weak and exhausted (especially since I'm highly active). I still eat a largely fruit and veggie based diet (as I don't like to eat excessive carbs as it makes me tired, and I don't eat processed food at all). But i do need meat and eggs (I keep my servings within my body's requirements) and I process dairy really well.

I'm not trying to paint the entire movement. I just hate it when people try to act like EVERYONE should do it.

[thalassa]

Re: Going Vegan?

Just as many animals die to make a loaf of bread as they do to make a cheeseburger, whether one is using an old fashioned scythe or a new-fangled thresher. Turning this into a meat eaters do this or veggies do that shit slinging fest is counterproductive and old. For those of us that have been on this forum for a while, its totally old hat. QF, I don't give two shits what someone decides to put in their body or why, its their decision. But
I've been there, done that, and the simple fact is that a good chunk of people that become vegan do it badly, or don't have the body type and chemistry to react well to it and end up ill. Diet is a complex subject and to simply say do this or do that or its better to do this or that or the better person does this or that is quite simply hubris.

[DanieMarie]

Re: Going Vegan?

BTW I'm not trying to say that people shouldn't be vegan or vegetarian...I also don't care what people themselves try to do. I was originally trying to give advice based on the fact that even without allergies, not everyone can be vegan and it's a big choice to make that involves a lot of planning. And then I got defensive because I don't like other people who aren't my doctor assuming they know more about my body than I do....

[Just_Wondering]

Re: Going Vegan?

If I seemed defensive it was because veganism was being shown largely as fiddle-faddle nonsense, not to mention largely dangerous (?). Also I felt the need to set right certain incorrect assumptions about vitamin deficiencies and cost of living.

I admit that I do have a problem with what people put into their bodies insofar as it affects other people. I largely believe that people should be free to do as they choose so long as they do not harm other things. I can understand how a meat eater would not be offended by a vegetarian, as the vgetarian I abstaining from things and their decision affects them alone. When a vegetarian is offended by meat-eating, it is entirely different as the meat-eater's choices affect more than just himself.

---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ----------

Also to daniemarie-I wasn't telling you wha to put in your body. I was merely making suggestions as you said you once attempted vegetarianism but quit due to allergies. Just trying to give some advice.