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Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

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    Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

    I have always felt very drawn to pagan and Wiccan belief's. But on the same hand I have always been very very christian. Pentacostal even. Don't get to much more strict than that. So growing up in the church, being very active, I felt so alive, felt a spark, and I felt lit with a fire of purpose. Well as time as gone on, and I was kicked out of the church I started reevaluating things and realized just how one sided and off everything I believed was. So over the past three years I have felt a growth of knowing and understanding, but I still feel like Im missing something that I had when I was in church. I ran a drama team for the youth and was great at it. I miss that so much, having a place and purpose. I even miss the "lizard brain" views of life. It was so much easier when everything was black and white. But once your eyes open, you can't really turn away. Life is full of grey and not as clear and cut throat as the church had lead to believe. But yet... I miss it.

    I have developed many different talents over the years. I have honed some gifts I've had forever. Empathy, spirit communication etc. I've learned to harness these with Tarot. I have even seen some spirits of many different natures. I have invoked spirits to do harm, and felt the back lash. I have healed, and have cleansed. And know what I saw and do was real.

    Right now I feel a very strong pull to one particular deity, and have been invoker her, and communicating with since she has shown herself to me and my bf. But I still feel drawn to the Christian God and Jesus. And Im at odds with how to handle this. I have had some pretty surreal moments in the christian atmosphere as well. I have experienced what its like to be "Slain in the spirit." I have felt the strength and chills when people talk in tongues. I have been able to tell when someone fakes it. I have seen "angels" and demons. I have heard the voice of who I thought was God. (Now Im not so sure as to who it was.)

    I dont what know what I felt anymore and I guess that is what still scares me. On one hand I have started to view the basic Christian concept of God is no different than that of the romans and greeks. I see it as... If God is everywhere and everything, how is worshipping or acknowledging the different parts of the "almighty" bad... So I think most religions and views are very diluted but they each have something to carry.

    But my strong pull to the church leaves me... in a spirit of conflict. I can identify and understand it, just as I can with Lillith (the goddess I have started to work with.)
    I know many people have many God's and Goddess' they work with. Is it perfectly normal to work with God( Jehova, the almighty etc... They never really gave a name to God which I found to be very cocky), and other gods?

    I just wonder if anyone out there has any of the struggles or have over come them. I would enjoy hearing insight you could give.

    M

    #2
    Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

    Burn a church down while you evil-laugh. That should do.

    I can't say I've been there, but my advice would be to take some time and distance from BOTH beliefs. This doesn't seem easy since you've just started to relate to an entity. Take a couple of weeks, or even months, away from any practice. Meditation is ok as long as it's neutral. Find yourself and try to create a balance. Don't overthink it though. That can be really harmful. At times, try to dissipate your thoughts on banal daily matters. Leave your mind blank and enter automatic mode from time to time. This should help clear things up in your head a bit.

    I don't know what else I could help you with...

    Good luck!

    Check out my blog! The Daily Satanist

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      #3
      Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

      Wow thanks for that advice. It seems like something that would be very helpful to find the balance. I may start that up here in a day or two. I was going to wait a couple days before I did some deep meditation and see what all I discovered on my own. I just leave such deep meditations for last ditch efforts cause thats when I open up full force and its very uncomfortable to feel everything around me. But it gives me something else to do before I get to that point.

      But Im uncertain really as to how balance is achieved by ignoring both lol. I guess it may be one of those things I try and will see =D

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

        your God has a name... he has many names. honestly I think you'd have a lot of problems answered if you dig deep into the roots of Christianity... theres a lot that they covered up. If you're honest with yourself, live by the commandments, and follow your heart as you dig into whats hidden. then you'll realize how to be a better believer in the Christian God than most christians are today. I'd give you some books to read up on, but i recently recovered my computer from a major crash and lost about 10gb of books on all sorts of topics... If you look further and look at multiple beliefs, look at their all powerful creator deity and tell me if it doesnt sound familiar. Even the idea of a Jesus-like person/deity is in a lot of different religions. Honestly, be a good person, and your God will be happy. respect his creation.
        "Sometimes bad things happen, and theres nothing you can do about it, so why worry?" ~ Timon

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

          Originally posted by Djnn View Post
          I have always felt very drawn to pagan and Wiccan belief's. But on the same hand I have always been very very christian.
          May I address your question in 'bullet points' for brevity's sake?

          ~1. At its core Christianity has many pagan elements that have been reworked and 'sanitized' to fit their religious preferences. Its no wonder you feel a pull toward them both.

          ... growing up in the church, being very active, I felt so alive, felt a spark, and I felt lit with a fire of purpose...
          I don't think you will be able to duplicate the feelings you had at the Pentecostal church. I too was a VERY devout Christian at one time. Although I had to 'run for my life' (or at least my sanity) to get out of there, there were many experiences that I will always cherish. But the truth is YOU CAN'T GO BACK to the past. What is gone is gone.

          Well as time as gone on, and I was kicked out of the church...
          Curious. I wonder why you were "kicked out?" Were you not an ideal Christian or was your pagan side just asserting itself more strongly? Of course, its none of my business, no need to answer. But at some point, for whatever reason, THEY decided you were not "one of THEM."

          .... but I still feel like Im missing something that I had when I was in church...
          Yes, that would be the CHURCH, the other churchgoers and the Spirit of it all. The "feeling" you're talking about is something I can relate to. In my opinion, you can't duplicate that feeling or get what that experience gave you back then without returning to that lifestyle, which is something that no longer fits your belief system. So you have GROWN and evolved up until this point.

          ... I ran a drama team for the youth and was great at it. I miss that so much, having a place and purpose. I even miss the "lizard brain" views of life. It was so much easier when everything was black and white....
          Well, there are MANY activities of a mentoring, teaching sort in the pagan community. Why not replace the drama class thing with something similar in your new life? After all, people are still people no matter what the faith they espouse, and you still have whatever talents and resources you have to offer these folks, right?

          ...I have developed many different talents over the years. I have honed some gifts I've had forever. Empathy, spirit communication etc. I've learned to harness these with Tarot. I have even seen some spirits of many different natures. I have invoked spirits to do harm, and felt the back lash. I have healed, and have cleansed. And know what I saw and do was real.

          Right now I feel a very strong pull to one particular deity, and have been invoker her, and communicating with since she has shown herself to me and my bf. But I still feel drawn to the Christian God and Jesus. And Im at odds with how to handle this. I have had some pretty surreal moments in the christian atmosphere as well. I have experienced what its like to be "Slain in the spirit." I have felt the strength and chills when people talk in tongues. I have been able to tell when someone fakes it. I have seen "angels" and demons. I have heard the voice of who I thought was God. (Now Im not so sure as to who it was.)
          What a wonderfully rich spiritual life you are leading! Congratulations. As mentioned before, I too had a very close relationship with God (Christian version) and Jesus Christ. Becoming a pagan was rather a large change in that relationship. It was almost like losing two very trusted friends and allies. Could I still pray to them? Would they still listen to me, answer or be angry with me? But, BUT... I learned that ALL is Spirit and Spirit is ALL. Call these entities by whatever name you choose, our relationship was not changed merely because a few humans with their "lizard brain" mentality disapproved.

          I wish you well on your journey and encourage you to CONTINUE to embrace your relationship with Jesus and God while having enough faith in their understanding your pagan loves and the spiritual abilities you have been blessed with!
          Last edited by Magus; 05 Apr 2012, 05:03.
          sigpicFor something different, visit my blog: http://theunknownwizard.blogspot.com

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

            I, too, can relate to your experience. I have many Pagan friends from Christian backgrounds who had bad experiences and look upon Christianity with disdain now. It was never like that for me. I found Christianity on my own, just sort of stumbled into it by accident, but it was never forced down my throat. I loved church, I studied the Bible for fun as a teenager and found a lot of enjoyment in doing so. Some of my best memories are from church or vacation Bible school or Christian summer camp. But as I grew older, I began questioning the Bible and the things I believed. I found Paganism and for a long time I felt drawn to it, but uncomfortable with it, still clinging to my Christian roots.

            Some people will argue this, but there are paths that merge Christianity and Paganism, or lie somewhere in the gray areas in between. Have you looked at Christo-Paganism, Christian witchcraft, gnosticism? Even my father's family, who refuse to call themselves anything other than "Christian" raised me with beliefs in things like psychic energy, spirits, faeries, metaphyics, herbal healing.

            I started out in Paganism believing in a god and goddess who were aspects of a greater spirit, but I was eventually drawn to other deities as well. That scared me a lot at first. Meditation helped me during that time. I talked to the Christian God. I talked to other deities. We worked things out. But it took time and patience. Don't rush yourself and don't let anyone make you feel "not Christian enough" or "not Pagan enough" for exploring your beliefs. You have time to figure it all out.

            Hope that helps a little! I wish you the best!

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

              Hey djnn

              i was thinking about how i used to follow christianity and its beliefs but i changed as a person and found my path. But i still miss the feeling when you are singing praise or have bowed your heads in worship how there is like a buzzing in the room. I was thinking that it could be a synchronization of energies. I COULD BE COMPLETELY WRONG but it made sense in my head. In my old youth group we would be dancing around shout praise, sending our love and energy into the universe, then we would be calm and sometimes hold hands. There would be a spark that shot around the room and everyone would be at complete peace. That could be everybopdies energies syncing into one. Just like in some rituals. That feeling could be what you are missing.

              Maybe you should find some people in your local pagan community and get together for Beltane or another sabbat or ritual depending on your beliefs. Get to know these people and deduce wether it is the same feeling in ritual as it is in prayer or praise

              hope i helped and didn't just make your brain implode
              Shada

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

                Hey,
                I was raised a Roman Catholic, went to Catholic elementary school and high school. I severed as an Acolyte. (Alter Server) for my church and had a wonderful time doing such things! I even had the honor of serving a wedding for a famous musician who lived in my neighborhood! I went out of my way to do such things for the joy it brought me.

                However, as I grew older I started to disagree with all religion and everything. Left my religious roots behind and was angry with them. I bad mouthed the religion and have said things were rubbish and nonsense. It took me a few years actually to make peace with myself on the subject. In turn, I learned how to look at things very differently. A short story... One day I was struggling with an issue, a relationship issue (damn those things..) I had so many questions but I had no and still do not identify myself with any particular deity. (I am still searching I suppose?) Well, this one day I had to wait many hours, a result of a lack of a car and needing to wait for a ride after work (8 hours of waiting o.O)... Anyways. time was drawing near but no near enough and I could not take the question building up in my head. I was in a parking lot of mostly closed stores (around 10-11pm I suppose) and I just looked up the sky and talked. I referenced everyone. I was trying to bargain with them "Help me now and make yourself known and you will have a follower" Well, at this point, Jesus kept popping up into my head. I proceeded to say that I do believe in Jesus and God and such but I do not believe in their representation through Christianity, or any monotheistic religion. I do not like the dark secrets of Christianity, I do not like how it proclaims to be THE religion but everything about it seems to be based off of some pagan religion prior to its existence. I acknowledged them but I had to draw a line a say I would not follow them because I have already done so and was not happy in the end. I kept asking for a sign and a sign that allows me to know WHO or WHAT they are so I KNOW it was not a coincidence. I am very analytical and do not easily follow without the proper sign for me (properly why I am still unsure of so many things.)

                [Did I say short story"]

                Anyways, the only thing I got that night was that I was walking around and a curb I found a package of cigarettes... err a single cigarette, with a book of matches and a lighter all perfectly placed together. I took that as my sign to "just relax man." Simple and to the point with no indication of where it may have come from or who lead me to find it. Moral of story: Do not worry or be concerned if you drawn to a previous belief you turned away from. Rather, you should accept that it is what it is and make peace with it. Personally, as long as the religion provides hope and morals to a person, I do not care what is being worshipped (so as long as no one is hurt in anyway in the process.)


                As for what you said about the Christian view in comparison to Greek and Roman... Well I feel the same way. For two very different styles of belief, there are an incredible amount of similarities between Christianity and Greek/Roman belief. It is all about perspective and how you view things that are shaped by your brain.

                Perhaps something that you miss from your old ways is the group activity or activity in general. There are many things that can be done in the name of paganism or Pentecostal or neutral. Buy seeds and go through a forest and plant them. Perhaps did this solitary or with a group. Maybe find a group of people that do wildlife restoration or help keep parks in beautiful condition. If money is looking good for you, buying a homeless person a pizza pie can possibly do wonders for you. These things do not have to be done for anyone but yourself, perhaps the person you help and/or nature.

                What you have felt does not need to be identified as long as you know it was "good." The energy, the feel, the vibe, the overall understanding or lack of that you felt is key. Sure, it is great to associate a name and reason and story to everything we experience, its human nature. But I do not think it has to be such a way. Just be with the moment and just keep your eyes open.

                These are just my opinions and experiences, I hope they may have helped

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

                  I was Catholic growing up. I never questioned any of it. I knew there was a God of some kind, though I didn't know what it was. Once I decided not to be Catholic, I studied religion hard core. I went to Jewish Temple with a friend and Hindu Temple with another. I went to every church in my city. Then, one day, something occured to me. All of these people could FEEL a higher power or God or energy or whatever just like I could. They just had different ways of expressing that belief. That's when I realized all religions are right and they are all wrong. So, I stopped searching and embraced my own beliefs. I still go to church now and again, but I go to different ones. I like the energy and the faith aspect of it. But, I don't consider myself Chrisitian as I do not believe Jesus was more than a prophet and not worthy of worship.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

                    The reason I was kicked out of the church was because I was gay. lol That right there sent so many red flags. And is a reason I looked to the other things that I had a pull towards. What I had known from years pushed me away. And I am thankful for that now looking back. Because it neglected me I was able to see what else there was. Find myself.

                    ---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

                    I knew there were many people that had the same issue that I have had, but I had no idea that so many felt the exact same way that I have. And I think many of you have pin pointed what Im missing. I would think the difference in what I am now and what I was then, is the congregation. I am mostly a solo practitioner right now. I would love to meet with several people that share some of the same belief's. And I know pagan is a wonderful title, and doesn't have any one kind of identity. But I fear from what I was raised with. In church it was their way only. I am somewhat fearful of meeting such pagans that think I should follow their path to a "t" This fear is something I need to ignore and just reach out and see what is out there. But even then, I am uncertain how to find others close by. Its great finding liked mind individuals on the internet but finding them close by in the real world is far different.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

                      Originally posted by Djnn View Post
                      The reason I was kicked out of the church was because I was gay. lol That right there sent so many red flags. And is a reason I looked to the other things that I had a pull towards. What I had known from years pushed me away. And I am thankful for that now looking back. Because it neglected me I was able to see what else there was. Find myself.

                      ---------- Post added at 07:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:40 PM ----------

                      I knew there were many people that had the same issue that I have had, but I had no idea that so many felt the exact same way that I have. And I think many of you have pin pointed what Im missing. I would think the difference in what I am now and what I was then, is the congregation. I am mostly a solo practitioner right now. I would love to meet with several people that share some of the same belief's. And I know pagan is a wonderful title, and doesn't have any one kind of identity. But I fear from what I was raised with. In church it was their way only. I am somewhat fearful of meeting such pagans that think I should follow their path to a "t" This fear is something I need to ignore and just reach out and see what is out there. But even then, I am uncertain how to find others close by. Its great finding liked mind individuals on the internet but finding them close by in the real world is far different.
                      You know, I almost wonder if you should maybe check out a Unitarian Universalist type setting? I mean, depending on the church in question, the environment can be different - but generally speaking, they tend to be open to all religions and try to gather people together in unity. I went to one and really liked it - there were all kinds there, from Jewish to Christian to Pagan and more.

                      I don't think you necessarily need to make your different beliefs exclusive one of another. I was raised Christian as well but I can't really be very helpful I think about that particular aspect, because my experience was very negative, so I don't think it would really apply to your situation as much, you know? I can say that the pentacostal churches I attended and the experiences I went through in those years were very very real, and to be honest some of them were positive in some way - but for me (which may not at all apply to you) there was too much emphasis on "dying to self" which was basically erasing my identity and being swallowed up by this...terrible whiteness...looking back I cannot believe for one minute that the spirit in question, however vast, was truly God as I understand him/her/it to be. Far too terrifying and far too tyrannical. Again - that's just the path I chose and the experiences I had. From reading your post you went through very different and largely positive things and I'm guessing you met with a very different type of God (so to speak)

                      That being said, I don't think that you need to divorce the two religions. There are many who bridge the gap between Pagan and Christian! Start looking around and you'll find it everywhere. Might be a great idea for you. Instead of feeling like you need to choose. If you feel drawn to both I don't see any reason to do otherwise.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

                        If I havent said it already, welcome to the forum Djnn!

                        I know I'm a bit late to the party, but wanted to add a couple of ideas I haven't seen posted.

                        First: have you considered attending a Unitarian Universalist church? They generally have a great sense of community, and are very opened minded and welcoming, and often have smaller groups for pagans and/or LGTB members that meet mid-week. One of the other admins suggested I find one, and it really saved my sanity when leaving my Birth-faith(I relate very strongly to what you said about community...for me every aspect of my life, every friend, every social outlet, was tied to church, making leaving terrifying, even when I was miserable). ETA: didn't see Rainbow Demonic's post before responding! Yes!!!

                        Second: I personally don't always care for labels like Christo-pagan. I think that it runs the risk of emphasizing the wrong things. However, like others have said, there is a LOT out there that churches don't teach about Christianity. The whole package; old testament, new testament, and the way policies were formed during ensuing history. I've been recently discovering that some old saints, especially ones that have aspects lifted from Paganism, speak to me in very interesting ways. Not something I ever would have expected.

                        Third: My heart goes out to you about being kicked out of your faith due to your identity. It takes a lot of courage to cope with something like that, and it's brutally painful, especially if family is not supportive. I hope with all my heart you can find the knowledge and support you desire.
                        Great Grandmother's Kitchen

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

                          I really like the idea of this Unitarian Universal church. It sounds like something I do believe in. A gathering of minds, not a gathering of drones lol. Main issue with that right now is the lack of such places in this area. I live in TN and in a small town which means BIBLE BELT haha. I will have to look and see what I can find though. My old town in GA that I moved her from (which was smaller than where I am now) actually had a similar kind of church.

                          A lot of the things I have been seeing and starting to believe in have some form of christian background. As you said Dez that some of the old saints seem to call out to you, I have a similar experience with a forgotten biblical figure. I have a strong connection to both God and Lillith. Which is interesting. I find it amazing how that when I was simply pentacostal I would pray and get answers eventually. But here lately when I would pray and invoke both God and Lillith I see results immediately. Doing research on Lillith she stands for much of what I have gone through in life, so for me... it makes perfect sense that she showed herself, and I have seen far to much proof to not believe in her the same way I have seen proof to believe in the Christian God.

                          I kindda get annoyed that they call him God though. I need to find some name to just call him by that I like. To me saying God would be like walk into a crowded store and say "Hey you, with the face, come here." haha

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

                            Originally posted by Djnn View Post
                            I really like the idea of this Unitarian Universal church. It sounds like something I do believe in. A gathering of minds, not a gathering of drones lol. Main issue with that right now is the lack of such places in this area. I live in TN and in a small town which means BIBLE BELT haha. I will have to look and see what I can find though. My old town in GA that I moved her from (which was smaller than where I am now) actually had a similar kind of church.

                            A lot of the things I have been seeing and starting to believe in have some form of christian background. As you said Dez that some of the old saints seem to call out to you, I have a similar experience with a forgotten biblical figure. I have a strong connection to both God and Lillith. Which is interesting. I find it amazing how that when I was simply pentacostal I would pray and get answers eventually. But here lately when I would pray and invoke both God and Lillith I see results immediately. Doing research on Lillith she stands for much of what I have gone through in life, so for me... it makes perfect sense that she showed herself, and I have seen far to much proof to not believe in her the same way I have seen proof to believe in the Christian God.

                            I kindda get annoyed that they call him God though. I need to find some name to just call him by that I like. To me saying God would be like walk into a crowded store and say "Hey you, with the face, come here." haha
                            Hmm, I wonder if you might look for Unitarian groups instead of churches (or small house churches or whatever)...have you tried things like meetup.com? I used to use that to find groups in my area when I was in Texas (also Bible belt, it was hard to find groups sometimes).

                            Try this out for names of God, there are lots and lots of them to choose from, maybe you'll find one you like here? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God

                            I hope things work out for you!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Confusion... Inner struggle. Insight greatly Appreciated

                              Oh I definantly found one I like. A name to call him by for important things. Not something to state all the time I dont think. This article is so interesting. Thank you <3

                              Comment

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