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When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

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    When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

    When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

    Has anything shown direct results?

    #2
    Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

    How do you define magic?

    How do you define "black" magic, for that matter?

    How would results be any different from, for example, praying or rubbing a lucky coin?

    If something is unethical to do, or involves things like cursing others, chances are you won't have people sharing info about it on here. That said, not everyone in here believes in the Wiccan "do no harm", and rule of three guidelines.
    Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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      #3
      Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

      Define 'black magic'.

      If you mean use of power to attack a fellow sapient being then I support it in most of the same conditions that I support any form of agression. Namely, to defend yourself or another against an aggressor.

      If you're thinking of something else (and there are several other possible options), I'll need specifics.
      life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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        #4
        Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

        Generally speaking, if your morals & ethics prevent you from doing something via mundane means, or if you'd feel bad about doing something in the 'real world', you probably shouldn't look to magic to do it either. If you can find a compelling justification to commit murder, then you can find a compelling reason to use magic to kill someone.

        Magic is magic, energy is energy. There is no 'evil' energy or 'black' magic - only malicious people. Or angry people. Or hurting people. Anger and pain and jealousy and desperation can make perfectly nice, perfectly normal people do some horrible things. And there are just some horrible people out there (myself included). The biggest difference between positive magic and negative magic is that, for the most part, negative deeds are easier. Magic is emotional, and it's a hell of a lot easier to do something in the heat of rage or heartbreak than it is to calm down and think rationally.
        The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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          #5
          Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

          Well put perze.

          The answer to this question lies within yourself. What are your ethics and morals? What do you value?

          Do you believe in "the golden rule"? Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
          Do you believe in "an eye for an eye"? You have stolen a loaf of bread, so now we cut of your arm.

          If you feel someone has wronged you and you believe that you should perform a spell to "make it even" that is your choice. You could also choose to "pray" for that person and ask the God/dess to give that person the ability to see how they have wronged you and even ask the God/dess to give you the strength to forgive them and their wrong doings. Or you can do anything in between.

          The beautiful thing about magic is it suits the good, the bad, and everything in between.
          sigpic

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            #6
            Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

            I agree with Perze, my morals and ethics define every choice I make be it mundane or magical. The big decider for me is always personal responsibility. I weigh up all possible consequences of my actions and if I am willing to take 100% responsibility for those consequences I am good to go. I am also aware that I can not always know every possible consequence so deciding whether I am willing to take responsibility for those I didn't forsee is another major factor.

            Have I used magic to cause someone else harm? Nope. Would I if it was to defend myself or the people I care about? You can bet your last pound I would.
            http://thefeministpagan.blogspot.co.uk/

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              #7
              Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

              Aside from what everyone else has said...or perhaps in line with...

              wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong

              No matter what tool its achieved with.

              (now if we want a discussion over what exactly is "wrong", thats an entirely different discussion)
              Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
              sigpic

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                #8
                Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                In my opinion, black magick is justified all the time....so long as you know what you're doing/that it is worth it. Though i don't separate magick into blacks and whites

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                  #9
                  Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                  I don't think it ever is justified. I don't believe force should be used against anything unprovoked. I agree wholly with the Wiccan crede of "harm none" and the libertarian non aggression principle.


                  If unjustified aggression is used against you, however, I personally think it is acceptable to stand up for yourself and return the attack, whereas some may advise letting karma handle the paybacks, but I wouldn't rule out the latter.

                  As far as magic goes, I don't think there are any limits. Much like the universe.
                  Last edited by LirvA; 04 Jun 2012, 02:12.

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                    #10
                    Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                    Originally posted by greenhead View Post
                    When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                    Has anything shown direct results?
                    As far as your "direct results" question. I have an example, however any skeptic could call it coincidence. I was having a lot of difficulty at work because of one particular coworker CONSTANTLY gossiping about other coworkers. It made the whole work environment tense. On multiple occasions I told her "if you are going to talk bad about someone, don't do it in front of me." or stating "hmm... I wonder what you say about me when I walk away." But it seemed no matter what I did or said this coworker continued to bad mouth her peers. Eventually things became so hostile I was dreading going to work. I decided then to work a spell.

                    The spell is done with candles and Tarot cards Emperor Justice and Strength

                    Candle of Power, Candle so Bright
                    I seek a need of change in your Light
                    I call on the forces higher than I
                    To release the energy that is held inside
                    If words of cruelty be spoken any
                    May it return three times three
                    If words of hate disgrace a name
                    Bring the sender guilt and shame
                    By the powers of Moon and Sun
                    From your lips there shall be none!
                    So mote it be.

                    The candle then burns until it is self extinguished.

                    This particular coworker two days later became violently ill and was in the Emergency Room with severe stomach pain. According to her, the doctors could not find the reason she was having this pain even though numerous lab tests and imaging was done. They had assumed that she perhaps had a stomach flu. She was in the hospital for two days. When she returned to work the gossiping stopped. She rarely talks bad about anyone and the work environment has been pleasant ever since.

                    Do I regret doing the spell? NO! But I am not happy that she was in the hospital and so ill. I didn't ASK the God/dess to make her ill. But perhaps that was the universe or karma's way of dealing with the gossip. It returned three times three...
                    Last edited by LiadanWillows; 06 Jun 2012, 18:21. Reason: typo
                    sigpic

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                      #11
                      Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                      What people choose to do is their business. As long as you understand that things can come back to you. I would say if you feel bad at any point you should stop and not do it. The guilt will eat you up more than anything. I had no problems doing a spell on the morons at the public school my son once attended. They lied in some hearings we had so I put them all in the jar and asked Tyr for justice. I only put in the ones who lied. Don't really care what happens to them if anything. It was as much about letting go as giving them what they have coming (at least in my opinion).

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                        #12
                        Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                        To me, Magic is magic, energy is energy. It's the intent that makes in "black" and from how I have been taught, how i see right/wrong. Black magic is merely using magic on/towards someone without their premission to change their state (for good or bad) for example my priestess told me once she did a binding spell to keep a friends husband from drinking and becoming violent. Even if the intent is "good" in your eyes. It was still black magic, and wrong.

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                          #13
                          Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                          Originally posted by Ula View Post
                          What people choose to do is their business. As long as you understand that things can come back to you. I would say if you feel bad at any point you should stop and not do it. The guilt will eat you up more than anything. I had no problems doing a spell on the morons at the public school my son once attended. They lied in some hearings we had so I put them all in the jar and asked Tyr for justice. I only put in the ones who lied. Don't really care what happens to them if anything. It was as much about letting go as giving them what they have coming (at least in my opinion).
                          Well...as a Satanist I don't believe in karma. And lots of people have done things and nothing comes back to them, they sleep well at night and go on with a wonderful life. It sucks to know this, amirite?
                          Satan is my spirit animal

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                            #14
                            Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                            Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                            Well...as a Satanist I don't believe in karma. And lots of people have done things and nothing comes back to them, they sleep well at night and go on with a wonderful life. It sucks to know this, amirite?
                            I think at some point we all get what we deserve, good or bad. We don't always know what people have going on and somethings are not what they seem. It's not so much karma as wyrd, so I don't let it bother me too much.

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                              #15
                              Re: When is black magic justified in your opinion and what are its limits?

                              If you feel a need to justify doing something, then you should think real hard before doing it.

                              When you act with a clear conscious, you can do a thing without fabricating an excuse for yourself.
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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