Defining "Black Magic"

[Medusa]

Not to be all debaty...But the whole personal gain shenanigans is wrong train of thought. Are you to tell me no one does ANYTHING for personal gain? What would you call Man's number one directive: SURVIVAL. That's pretty much as personal as you can get in the gain dept.

Hard work is for personal gain.
Losing weight is for personal gain.
Picking the right kind of mate is personal gain.

[Tylluan Penry]

Not to be all debaty...But the whole personal gain shenanigans is wrong train of thought. Are you to tell me no one does ANYTHING for personal gain? What would you call Man's number one directive: SURVIVAL. That's pretty much as personal as you can get in the gain dept.

Hard work is for personal gain.
Losing weight is for personal gain.
Picking the right kind of mate is personal gain.

Absolutely. In the ancient world just about ALL magic was for personal gain. There is usually - if we look hard enough - personal gain in there somewhere.

My only warning is to read something like W W Jacobs' The Monkeys Paw first. And make sure you know exactly what you're asking for in case you get it.

But for me, at least, personal gain doesn' mean 'black magic.'

[LiadanWillows]

Not to be all debaty...But the whole personal gain shenanigans is wrong train of thought. Are you to tell me no one does ANYTHING for personal gain? What would you call Man's number one directive: SURVIVAL. That's pretty much as personal as you can get in the gain dept.

Hard work is for personal gain.
Losing weight is for personal gain.
Picking the right kind of mate is personal gain.

I completely agree with you Medusa. Heck even praying for or healing someone else could be stretched to personal gain. I help others because it makes ME feel good too.

[RainbowDemonic]

Personally I don't go with the whole 'white' and 'black' magic thing. For me there's intention and there's method. So if you are deliberately setting out to harm someone (for whatever reason, even a justifiable one) then that's a dark intention, and if you harm someone or something during the performance of that spell (e.g. animal sacrifice) then that's a dark method. It's possible to use a dark method for a good intention (though I can't imagine why anyone would want to) and a light method for a dark intention (which some people feel more comfortable with.)

Spells intended for the 'whitest' of purposes have the potential to cause huge damage. While spells intended to harm just one person may do just that. So personally I believe the concept is highly misleading.

Years ago, people who habitually used questionable methods for equally questionable purposes were described as taking the left hand path. This used to tickle (amuse) me because I'm left handed anyway!

As for personal gain, I really don't class that as black magic. As the author David Rankine says, 'A poor magician is a poor magician.' There's no harm in performing magic for personal gain, provided you are ethical about it, and don't use it as the psychic equivalent of an armed robbery!

Yep! Took the words right out of my mouth.

I don't ascribe to the whole black and white thing. I'm all for shades of gray and embracing the whole damned rainbow. How one sees a color, sound, or vibration is largely affected by their cultural or personal sense of symbology. In America we generally see white as pure, holy, sacred in some way - but elsewhere or in other times, white means the pallor of death and the terror of ghosts. I've seen both uses - white as a terrifying emptiness, a soul erased and pale and sickly; white as a white hot sun burning away one's enemies; so on and so forth. Same with black - anything from death and murder and hate; to mysterious wisdom; to depth, mass, or raw humming power.

That being said, what I consider 'black' is basically whatever comes across that way. I mean, if there's a blackness around the person and they're emanating aggression and using hostile magics, well, there you go. I just don't really tack on the stigma with "black" like some do. I simply call it like I see it but tend to befriend or besmirch (ethereal and physical alike) among white, black, and everything between equally, based solely on how they behave. The colors cease to really matter after a while. It becomes just a descriptor, a skin-deep identifier. I might say a spell is "black" in the same casual way I'd say "that chick at the beach who always wears a red hat".

[Caelia]

Hmm, some interesting responses...

I look at it this way: it goes back to the "money spell but someone loses something". Yes, you gain, and that puts a lot of spells in the black magic category when you do so, but it ultimately looks at what you're willing to do for it and how much of the intention is charging it. Are you really feeling good about healing a person, or do you feel good that the person is healed by your hand and has nothing to do with their wellbeing? Basically, what are you REALLY getting out of it? Also, think about it with protection spells. Chances are something's gonna have a bad time messing with you so that you're safe.

But, you know, when you don't look at magic in terms of colors it doesn't matter what some chick on the web thinks /playfulremark