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    #91
    Re: Pagan views on hunting

    Originally posted by GhostofGaia View Post
    But that begs the question , if you can afford to buy a gun and ammunition , why not just buy food? And as for people calling it "sport"... well if you were hunting bears with swords / spears then it might be . But shooting a helpless creature with no method to defend itself is no more sport than professional NFL players having a match against 4th graders.
    Have you ever even been hunting?
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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      #92
      Re: Pagan views on hunting

      There's natural ecological cycle of give and take. Nothing wrong with taking part in that as long as you only take your share.

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        #93
        Re: Pagan views on hunting

        Originally posted by GhostofGaia View Post
        Hunting animals doesn't seem like something a Pagan should be doing .
        Why? Not all Pagans adhere to ahimsa type ethics. Paganism isn't nearly dogmatic enough to make that a universally-accepted thing.
        Besides, there's tons of Pagans that worship gods of hunting. Even in more "hippy" type Pagan religions like Wicca, one of the chief deities is a hunting god.

        In the circumstance that you must kill for food , take only what is needed and no more.
        Which leads to a lot of wasted animal parts. A better maxim would be "use everything from what one kills"

        But that begs the question , if you can afford to buy a gun and ammunition , why not just buy food?
        The food you buy has to be killed somewhere, by someone. Meat doesn't grow peaceably on a meat tree. Animals used in store-bought meat are usually raised and slaughtered on an industrial scale and in deplorable conditions. Though this is slowly changing.
        In addition to the fact that gun and ammunition can be a lot cheaper in the long run if you plan on hunting for a considerably portion of meat. Depends on where you live and the cost and regulations surrounding firearms.

        And as for people calling it "sport"... well if you were hunting bears with swords / spears then it might be . But shooting a helpless creature with no method to defend itself...
        I don't think you understand how dangerous wild animals can be.

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          #94
          Re: Pagan views on hunting

          Hunting, as a religious or spiritual event, could only be applied to a few, various pagan world views. The common examples of the ritual kills from mainstream religions do not involve hunting the animal.


          My problem is, since when is hunting a moral question, on these religious/spiritual grounds? I mean, if that's the basis for pro- or anti- hunting positions, then why is all the extra propaganda thrown in?

          Seriously, now, the rituals and understandings that so many hunters maintain, if we have to go there, has pagan DNA. Even if those hunters aren't at all familiar with paganism, in its nearly infinite forms.




          "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

          "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

          "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

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            #95
            Re: Pagan views on hunting

            A few random thoughts about hunting, pagans, and eating meat...

            1. If people are hungry, they need to eat. For people who have access to hunting land, and little money (hence they are hungry), hunting puts food on the table - a lot of it, and cheaply too. For members of pre-Christian pagan religions, being hungry and having access to hunting land was more of a norm than it's opposite. It's unlikely that anything even close to a majority of pre-Christian pagans didn't hunt, or eat meat. Doing so would have been a luxury available only to the wealthy.

            2. Meat is highly nutritious, very compact, and very easily preserved. Any nomadic group, like most American Indian tribes, and I imagine also pre-Christian European nomadic groups, would be filling their bags with preserved meat, obtained largely from hunting - not heads of lettuce.

            Preserved meat is also the survival food par excellence. If one is on short rations and offered a choice between a strip of jerky or a bag of baby carrots, only the suicidal choose carrots. Pre-Christian pagans weren't playing games - they wanted to survive, so I imagine that hunting and eating meat were by far the norm.

            Yes, they almost certainly collected wild rice, and dried out fruits and berries, but these foods are seasonal whereas animals can be hunted in any season, making hunting more important to survival in the overall.

            3. Much of what we were taught about the past is pure, unadulterated B.S. In the Eco-bullshit days of the 70's I was taught in school that the Native Americans were models of conservation. I was taught that they took only what they needed, and had minimal impact on the environment. More adult research has taught me that this is far from true. The Native Americans changed the face of North America... and even created their own ecological disasters.

            I was also taught that "they used every part of the animal" - i.e. no waste. I have since learned that one of the primary ways in which Native American tribes harvested buffalo was to stampede a herd (hundreds, possibly thousands) of the critters over a cliff. I'm sure they harvested the meat. They also took the skins. They probably used the bones, too, since leather and bone are extremely useful materials in non-technological cultures. However, I sincerely doubt that they were able to use every part of every animal driven over a cliff. There must have been a hellacious amount of waste. And huge bone piles have been found.

            Also, when offered other materials, like steel knives, the Native Americans took them with delight - they weren't playing games either, and steel is a much better material for cutting tools than bone. When they could get it, they used it. It made survival more likely, and work easier.

            4. Producing meat, whether through hunting or farming, is an effective use of environmental resources. I often hear people giving some form of the following argument: X acres of farmland produces enough vegetation to feed Y number of people, while X acres land used for raising cattle produces only enough food to feed Y/10 people, therefore we could feed the whole world if we turned grazing land into farm land. Nobody who knows actual squat about farming will ever buy this argument, because it is flat out crazy.

            It is based on the false assumption that one acre of farmland is equal to one acre of grazing land. For farmland to be good it has to have the right fertility, the right rainfall, and the right climate. Grazing land is the land that is not fit for dirt farming, either because it is infertile, too dry, or where the growing season is too short. All of these conditions exist where I am in Northern Michigan, which is why we raise cattle here.

            These short comings can, of course, be overcome - if you are willing to destroy the environment by using massive amount of chemical fertilizers, pumping massive amounts of water out of the ground, or genetically modifying plants. All of which are likely to lead directly to future ecological disasters.

            It's better to raise cows on grazing land than it is to try and grow endive lettuce there.
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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              #96
              Re: Pagan views on hunting

              Although some disagree, hunting does a lot to balance out the ecosystem in an area.

              And what does it matter the spirit in which someone hunts? If hunters have fun while hunting, that's fine. I know a few myself and their freezers are full of deer meat because they use all of the animal. I've even seen a pipe made out of antler.
              It's not like parts of the animal go to waste. I''m pretty sure there is a rule about wantonly dropping animals and moving on to the next one.

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