Paganism at sea...

[theAmbassador]

I am currently serving in the US Navy (for those of you who haven't seen my intro thread yet) and with paganism growing more prevalent in my life almost daily, I am seeing myself faced with a number of questions first and foremost of which being: If I am out here in the ocean surrounded by steel, what am I to do about delving deeper into any one of a number of paths that all seem to demand that I immerse myself in secrecy, solitude, and nature? I am having an increasingly difficult time achieving the concentration necessary for meditation or energy channeling. And to top it off, there is only one known pagan on board that I am aware of without publicly proclaiming my interests in paganism amidst a primary Christian crew and he is only experienced in coven based Wicca. I find myself slightly discouraged with nearly every avenue of my pursuit in finding truth within Paganism leading me to a dead end. Are there any words of wisdom for a weary soul lost at sea? Any and all input is welcome.

[Ula]

Why not look into the various sea gods/goddesses? I know you guys share spaces so an altar is out. Can you get some guided meditations for like an ipod?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_deity

[thalassa]

I was in the Navy for 6 years and openly Pagan, as was my hubby, and a good number of most of our friends. Honestly, I had far more problems with being in the military in the Pagan community than I ever had being openly Pagan in the Navy. It was my experience that Paganism was an excuse to give shitty sailors a hard time, rather than something any of my chains of command or coworkers cared about.

Anyhoo...first, I'd have to ask what sort of command you are on? Surface or sub? Big crew or small? (You don't need to bust out your ship name or anything, but a big deck or a carrier makes it pretty easy compared to a small boy). And what is your rate? As a corpsman, I could always find a spot where no one would bother me, but as a deck seaman, I had a little bit of a harder time. Another thing to consider, depending on where you are homeported, there may be an active Pagan community...deployments aren't forever. Here in Norfolk there is a regular open drumcircle on Monday nights, and a number of smaller drumcircles and groups that do rituals as well as other path-specific groups, you just have to look around for them.

As for spirituality at sea... I've never had a practice that demanded secrecy or solitude, and Nature is just a couple of inches of steel away. I worship aquatic deities almost exclusively. And, the best place to meditate for me was the shower, or in my rack before bed. The hubby's ship actually had an "Earth Based Spirituality" Group, which was sponsored by the Catholic chaplain and led by him and two E-6's that were Pagan as well. On my destroyer, I even knew of a dozen Pagans, and in my department on shore duty, 6 out of 25 of us were Pagan. I'm willing to bet there are more than just the two of you...

[theAmbassador]

Well, we have a protestant specific chaplain embarked. I have spoken with him at length numerous times and he only seems to cater to the christian I used to be and how he can rekindle that flame. He has made it apparent that he has no experience with pagans and would prefer not to either. If there are any pagans on board they probably won't be jumping at the opportunity to fellowship since the fellow I mentioned earlier has done well to shout it from the rooftops that he is a witch and practices magic. Needless to say his poor delivery has led more than a few to speak out openly about their opinions of such beliefs, all negative of course.

With that I am not entirely interested in forming a group to meet with. Instead I simply wish to flesh out whatever it is I believe and branch out from there, but I'm finding it difficult to do so. I don't necessarily believe in any "Gods" or deities so looking to the sea itself doesn't seem like a viable option. I don't have the option to download anything for my ipod and as an operations specialist (within a predominantly christian division I might add) I don't have any secluded spaces to take up shelter in. I'm stationed on an LSD out of VA beach so we have a pretty sizable crew, but I have been on board for about 5 years now and haven't seen many pagans pass through. I am really just looking to discover what it is all of this means to me but I don't want to put it off now when I am feeling so strongly about it.

My father died in March at the beginning of this deployment and the event brought the concept of my mortality and his journey through a proposed afterlife to the front of my mind. I know I don't believe in Christ or "Heaven" as detailed in the Bible, but I can't deny that there has to be some place that our energies go when our body dies and can no longer contain them. I don't know if this will lead me toward Pantheism, Shintoism, Zen, or what but I know I can't ignore it. I hope I'm at least making a little bit of sense because I feel like I'm rambling.

[thalassa]

Well, we have a protestant specific chaplain embarked. I have spoken with him at length numerous times and he only seems to cater to the christian I used to be and how he can rekindle that flame. He has made it apparent that he has no experience with pagans and would prefer not to either.

Ugh...I'm familiar with this sort of chaplain. Unfortunately, they happen. My husband's group had the same problem with our Protestant (Southern Baptist) chaplain, until the Catholic chaplain walked into the office. Its been my experience, from being on an LHD (which at least has two chaplains) and from being at the hospital (which has about a dozen), as a corpsman, that the Catholic chaplains, and the UCC (United Church of Christ) chaplains seem to be the best at doing their jobs...which is to serve to the religious needs of ALL sailors, whether they agree with their faith (or lack of it) or not.

If there are any pagans on board they probably won't be jumping at the opportunity to fellowship since the fellow I mentioned earlier has done well to shout it from the rooftops that he is a witch and practices magic. Needless to say his poor delivery has led more than a few to speak out openly about their opinions of such beliefs, all negative of course.

Yup, I've seen this phenomenon as well. Equally annoying as bad chaplains. I had this issue at the hospital, where two of the peeps in my CoC were...well, obnoxious, for lack of a better term, about their Paganess (one was Wiccan, and the other was just a random eclectic Pagan...and elsewhere at the hospital, we also had some dude that thought he was some sort of guru of a Paganism that looked more like a D&D game). What worked for me (though I sort of had this issue from being female and having to combat the image of "preggo to get out of deployment" or "willing to do anything to get someone else to do my job for me") was working my ass off at doing my job. Once people figured out I was competent and worked (plus I had a *totally fake* stunningly cheerful "go navy" attitude--one of my sailors called it "HM2's game face"--that was like a cross between a sorority girl and my first CMC), they barely questioned my religious choice once they were made aware of it. And, really, when someone was complaining about so-and-so, I could always say something like, "Dude, I'm Pagan, and I think that's..."

I'm not saying its something that works for everyone. I'm just saying that it can be done (and done in such a way that sort of tones down the opinion that all Pagans are like *them*. Also, I can see, if you are newly exploring Paganism, that it might not be your thing. By the time I joined the Navy, I'd been Pagan for 10 years, so I was used to it, lol!

With that I am not entirely interested in forming a group to meet with. Instead I simply wish to flesh out whatever it is I believe and branch out from there, but I'm finding it difficult to do so.

That's cool. Sometimes the group thing can be good for having moral support and people to bounce ideas off of, but I've mostly been solitary, except for public rituals, festivals, etc...and so has The Hubby. I have some standard advice that I usually offer to people that are in that process of determining and developing their beliefs, and only one one of them is actually difficult to do at sea (only less so if you have spaces you can retreat to where you won't be bothered)---but until you figure out what you believe, why and where you want to go with it, its really not something that is essential yet anyhow.

I don't necessarily believe in any "Gods" or deities so looking to the sea itself doesn't seem like a viable option.

You really aren't alone on this. I'm pretty ambiguous on the literal existence of deities, and I've found that its actually a pretty common point of view. You might actually be interested in researching Humanistic Paganism or Pagan Naturalism. Its a bit overly intellectualized for even my tastes (which might come as a surprise to some of our member, lol), but I enjoy reading the blog there.

I don't have the option to download anything for my ipod and as an operations specialist (within a predominantly christian division I might add) I don't have any secluded spaces to take up shelter in. I'm stationed on an LSD out of VA beach so we have a pretty sizable crew, but I have been on board for about 5 years now and haven't seen many pagans pass through. I am really just looking to discover what it is all of this means to me but I don't want to put it off now when I am feeling so strongly about it.

So...my recommendation would be to buy/find/otherwise procure a notebook to use as a journal. Or, if you have a laptop, maybe start a private blog, or just use a word document. Start writing about what you believe (or don't believe--sometimes that is an easier place to begin), about your thoughts for what sort of practices interest you, about the research/reading you do on those topics, etc. Be as specific as possible...it doesn't have to be an essay, it could be a poem, a brainstorming list, a drawing--doesn't matter.

I'm not sure what your rack arrangement is, or how tall you might be, but as a short person in a top rack, I could use the top of my rack as a desk, since the opening was between frames. I could also lay on my stomach in my rack and write, or on my back and type on my laptop. Another option, though, might be somewhere like the ship's library or classroom (ours had those little desks with the sides on them, and hours for people that wanted to chill)? Or even the mess decks afterhours when everyone else is playing cards and stuff--of course, that depends on your watch schedule and all that. Its too bad your chaplain isn't helpful, our Catholic chaplain would open the chapel for people that wanted "contemplative time" as he called it.

And reading/research isn't that difficult to do with the time you have online...I don't know how much research you've done (though your wife is Wiccan? So I assume you know at least a bit about Wicca), but reading about other paths and traditions and mythology and modes of thought, etc is always a good place to start. If you are interested in anything in particular, we have a pretty diverse crowd here that could probably offer you a good book/website list. I'm not sure how much DoD and IT approved websites have changed in the last few years, but the last time I was on a ship, I could order books on amazon and have them delivered to my family and have them mail them to me (though you might be able to ship them directly to an APO address, I never bothered to see)--if you buy used books off amazon, you can often get them (plus the 3.99 shipping) cheaper that their normal price. Another option might be to read online--you can buy kindle books and use their cloud reader over the web.

You can also practice meditation--in your rack (great way to clear your mind before you go to sleep) or in the shower (good "cleansing" visualization) or if your ship has a handy out of the way spot on the outer decks where you can catch a few minutes of zen--the aft missile deck was my spot...especially in the evening, right before darken ship. Also, you don't have to believe in deities to see Nature in the Sea and Sky...if you are like my hubby, and more of a woods and mountains type, it can be a bit more of a challenge, that's all...

My father died in March at the beginning of this deployment and the event brought the concept of my mortality and his journey through a proposed afterlife to the front of my mind. I know I don't believe in Christ or "Heaven" as detailed in the Bible, but I can't deny that there has to be some place that our energies go when our body dies and can no longer contain them. I don't know if this will lead me toward Pantheism, Shintoism, Zen, or what but I know I can't ignore it. I hope I'm at least making a little bit of sense because I feel like I'm rambling.

I'm very sorry to read about your father... My grandfather passed away last summer and we were very close, and being that our beliefs were very different, I found myself with the same musings. I don't think its an unusual question to have, or for events like that to bring us to new insights or perspectives on life.

...and I do think you've made excellent sense.

[theAmbassador]

Before I met my wife, I'd only ever encountered two pagans before her, both Wiccan, and neither of which I knew were pagan until after I decided to learn about it for myself. Being from a fundamentalist Christian background for so many years and of my own choosing, even after having left the church entirely I was still slightly apprehensive and off put by her religion. Until that point I had been taught that pagans were a number of things, but normal was not one of them. It took some time, but curiosity and a gradually opening mind led me to start researching Wicca. I was astounded by what I found in the pages of several books by several different Wiccan authors (most of which are solitary practitioners). I had no idea that I would agree with so much of what I found within those pages.

Since then I have been seeking out anything and everything I deemed a relevant and reliable resource on paganism in general. I have expressed to my wife that I have a vested interest in pursuing Wicca, but that if I do it will be for me and not because she is Wiccan. She comes from a family environment where numerous religious paths were taken and everyone in her household was respectful of each others beliefs. I know that no matter where I find myself spiritually she will respect my decision and that makes my journey a lot easier. She has sent some of my Wiccan/Pagan books in the mail for me. I just hope they get here before the end of deployment lol.

As for being underway, I'm on a class of ship that has no chapel and few recreational facilities unless you fancy going to one of our 6 gyms everyday. We use our only rec room for church services and our library is a lover's cove and remains constantly packed. For how large my platform is, there isn't much in the way of space. I will try my best to find some place that I can get alone time. My berthing isn't completely practical for meditation or quiet time, but it is something in the event that I can't find something more suitable.

My struggle lately is with the actually act of meditation. I find it exceedingly difficult to clear my mind enough to focus on what my body is trying to tell me. I try just visualizing myself in a forest (as I am a forest and mountains kind of guy) but I can't seem to hold onto the visual long enough before all of the background noise in my mind sets in. I just have way too much shuffling around in my mind.

At this moment with everything that I have taken in, I really feel like I am just looking to a foundation in nature and some sense of my place in the universe itself. I agree with a lot of what science has to teach us but I would also say that most scientists don't pretend to have all of the answers. The truth behind the energy that gives us life and thought and emotion is beyond the grasp of science, but it's existence cannot be denied. We simply cannot deny self. With that, I look around me and see the earth and beyond it the universe. So much of it connects for me creating this sort of cyclical existence. None of this was apparent to me as a Christian having been taught that all that we see before us is simply a throw away compared to what waits for us in Heaven. I can't help but feel that the same energy that flourishes in me and everyone else crosses paths with the energy of the other living things on Earth. With that I can start to conceptualize that the Earth itself which we can see permeates raw energy might also have life in it as well. Magnetic monopoles and electrical impulses are just a pair of examples.

Given all of that, I can say that my beliefs may rest with Pantheism and Shamanism. I'm just not sure though. There really are so many paths one can walk. Am I making any sense? All of this is derived simply from my understanding of how all of this comes together with everything that I have learned since I began this study. However, even as I begin to forge a foundation for my beliefs, I am still lost on how to act on them while away from all of the resources one would have at home.

All of this makes more sense when on the screen as opposed to rattling around in my mind.

[thalassa]

Before I met my wife, I'd only ever encountered two pagans before her, both Wiccan, and neither of which I knew were pagan until after I decided to learn about it for myself. Being from a fundamentalist Christian background for so many years and of my own choosing, even after having left the church entirely I was still slightly apprehensive and off put by her religion. Until that point I had been taught that pagans were a number of things, but normal was not one of them. It took some time, but curiosity and a gradually opening mind led me to start researching Wicca. I was astounded by what I found in the pages of several books by several different Wiccan authors (most of which are solitary practitioners). I had no idea that I would agree with so much of what I found within those pages.

Since then I have been seeking out anything and everything I deemed a relevant and reliable resource on paganism in general. I have expressed to my wife that I have a vested interest in pursuing Wicca, but that if I do it will be for me and not because she is Wiccan. She comes from a family environment where numerous religious paths were taken and everyone in her household was respectful of each others beliefs. I know that no matter where I find myself spiritually she will respect my decision and that makes my journey a lot easier. She has sent some of my Wiccan/Pagan books in the mail for me. I just hope they get here before the end of deployment lol.

Lol...waiting for mail at sea is never fun! Lets not think about getting Christmas cookies in time for Easter...

As for being underway, I'm on a class of ship that has no chapel and few recreational facilities unless you fancy going to one of our 6 gyms everyday. We use our only rec room for church services and our library is a lover's cove and remains constantly packed. For how large my platform is, there isn't much in the way of space. I will try my best to find some place that I can get alone time. My berthing isn't completely practical for meditation or quiet time, but it is something in the event that I can't find something more suitable.

Use your ear protection! Or headphones and some mellow music... Honestly, I had to double up my curtains and use ear plugs to sleep---I'm a light sleeper. Same thing to meditate.

My struggle lately is with the actually act of meditation. I find it exceedingly difficult to clear my mind enough to focus on what my body is trying to tell me. I try just visualizing myself in a forest (as I am a forest and mountains kind of guy) but I can't seem to hold onto the visual long enough before all of the background noise in my mind sets in. I just have way too much shuffling around in my mind.

This is actually a pretty common problem. Very few people are ever good at meditation at first...and we probably have enough threads here on the topic to prove it!

At this moment with everything that I have taken in, I really feel like I am just looking to a foundation in nature and some sense of my place in the universe itself. I agree with a lot of what science has to teach us but I would also say that most scientists don't pretend to have all of the answers. The truth behind the energy that gives us life and thought and emotion is beyond the grasp of science, but it's existence cannot be denied. We simply cannot deny self. With that, I look around me and see the earth and beyond it the universe. So much of it connects for me creating this sort of cyclical existence. None of this was apparent to me as a Christian having been taught that all that we see before us is simply a throw away compared to what waits for us in Heaven. I can't help but feel that the same energy that flourishes in me and everyone else crosses paths with the energy of the other living things on Earth. With that I can start to conceptualize that the Earth itself which we can see permeates raw energy might also have life in it as well. Magnetic monopoles and electrical impulses are just a pair of examples.

Given all of that, I can say that my beliefs may rest with Pantheism and Shamanism. I'm just not sure though. There really are so many paths one can walk. Am I making any sense? All of this is derived simply from my understanding of how all of this comes together with everything that I have learned since I began this study. However, even as I begin to forge a foundation for my beliefs, I am still lost on how to act on them while away from all of the resources one would have at home.

All of this makes more sense when on the screen as opposed to rattling around in my mind.

Lol! I've found that to often be the case as well. You can probably find a good deal of suggestions on blogs and websites in Pantheism and Shamanism while you wait for your books to show up...we have a few Pantheists (including myself) and at least one person that follows a shamanic path (and a number of people that incorporate shamanism into their path). And really, its okay if you aren't sure which path you want to walk...there is nothing wrong with walking your own meandering path instead!

[theAmbassador]

Could you refer me to said practitioners of shamanism? I have a few questions I'd like to ask and I feel like starting a new thread over it would only unnecessarily clutter the forum. Thoughts?

[thalassa]

Could you refer me to said practitioners of shamanism? I have a few questions I'd like to ask and I feel like starting a new thread over it would only unnecessarily clutter the forum. Thoughts?

You are totally welcome to start a new thread on the subject, there are a few people that might be able to offer resources and answer questions! We do have an older book recommendation thread that you could probably revive, over here...but other than that, we don't have that many threads on shamanism in particular. Before the forum crashed and we had to restart everything, we used to have an Ask a Shaman thread, hosted by Eisheth (hint, hint Juni!!)...you could probably PM her if you you don't want to start a new thread.

[theAmbassador]

Thank you!

Also, As a vet you must have been deployed while your spouse was at home so maybe you can help me with this:
My wife is at home taking care of our two small boys and tells me she doesn't really have the energy to converse about religion. I am a little discouraged by this because I feel like this is a critical time for me while I essentially rediscovering myself. I try to remind myself that she really is busy and as I know raising two boys is draining, but I want to be able to communicate to her how serious and exciting this is to me without coming off as inconsiderate or uncaring of the work she is doing at home while I am away.