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Dionysos Worship Q&A

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    #16
    Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

    [quote author=PainAndLight link=topic=70.msg8441#msg8441 date=1288491750]
    Personally, I think that if you're using this for your basis of understanding of Apollo and Dionysus, from what I understand about this book, you're missing a lot with respect to both gods. ...[/quote]

    I don't want to take this thread off track, but since this was pointed at me, I'll give a quick response -

    You are right. Nietzsche used Apollo and Dionysus as metaphors for certain ideas he wanted to put forth, which means that whatever understanding I took away from that of Apollo and Dionysus as deities was less than complete. That's why I wanted to ask Raphaeline about Dionysus as a God.

    [quote author=PainAndLight link=topic=70.msg8441#msg8441 date=1288491750]
    I haven't read The Birth of Greek Tragedy myself (plan to one of these days) but from what I can tell, it seems to paint the two as being very much a set of polar opposites, a very either/or dichotomy whereas, in reality, Apollo is not strictly rational and civilized, while Dionysus is not without his much more restrained sides. I've got some interesting ideas about the relationship between Apollo and Dionysus...heh[/quote]
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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      #17
      [/quote]

      Nah, it wasn't based on what you said, just a general comment based on what knowledge I have of the work in question. And I'm to trying to side track the thread, I promise! I'm just really bad at getting involved anytime I see Apollo mentioned, and the relationship between the two is of particular interest to me so....heh. I restrained myself- you didn't get a full essay on what I think :-P


      [quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=70.msg8454#msg8454 date=1288495977]By all means, though, read Nietzsche. [/quote][/quote][/quote]

      Ah, great. glad to be of assistance.
      Memories of Pain and Light: http://painandlight.wordpress.com

      "Hey love, I am a constant satellite of your blazing sun; my love, I obey your law of gravity, this is the fate you've carved on me, the law of gravity..." -Vienna Teng, Gravity

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        #18
        Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

        [quote author=PainAndLight link=topic=70.msg8463#msg8463 date=1288497654]
        I'm just really bad at getting involved anytime I see Apollo mentioned, and the relationship between the two is of particular interest to me so....heh. I restrained myself- you didn't get a full essay on what I think :-P[/quote]

        LOL - actually, I like full essays ;D

        Maybe you could start an Apollo thread? I'd be interested, and I'm sure others would be as well...
        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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          #19
          Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

          Today I ordered two books concerning Dionysos. Dionysos by Carl Kerenyi and Dionysos And Immortality: The Greek Faith In Immortality As Affected By The Rise Of Individualism by Benjamin Ide Wheeler.
          I'm very interested in both Dionysos and immortality. Will come back in this topic, also when I finished reading.

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            #20
            Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

            [quote author=-Emotions- link=topic=70.msg8624#msg8624 date=1288559687]
            Today I ordered two books concerning Dionysos. Dionysos by Carl Kerenyi and Dionysos And Immortality: The Greek Faith In Immortality As Affected By The Rise Of Individualism by Benjamin Ide Wheeler.
            I'm very interested in both Dionysos and immortality. Will come back in this topic, also when I finished reading.
            [/quote]

            Walter F. Otto wrote a great one, too! If you get the chance, check out his book on Dionysos, which is often cited amongst devotees of the god.

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              #21
              Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

              [quote author=Raphaeline link=topic=70.msg8633#msg8633 date=1288562087]
              Walter F. Otto wrote a great one, too! If you get the chance, check out his book on Dionysos, which is often cited amongst devotees of the god.
              [/quote]

              Will keep in mind, thank you!

              I was looking online, for a Dionysos cult in my country, I can't find it though. It would've been a good guidance since most religious cults put some useful info online. I'm always looking into cults/groups that practice religion, to learn the practice along with the theoretic side of worship. I did that with all my interests, never joined one though.

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                #22
                Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                P.s. Would the hermetic order of the golden dawn be a good substitute for a Dionysos cult? Since hermetic belief system incorporate all kinds of gods if i'm correct.

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                  #23
                  Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                  [quote author=-Emotions- link=topic=70.msg8877#msg8877 date=1288642650]
                  P.s. Would the hermetic order of the golden dawn be a good substitute for a Dionysos cult? Since hermetic belief system incorporate all kinds of gods if i'm correct.
                  [/quote]

                  I don't really think I can answer that. A group that shares the focus on one god AND worships that god in the same way is going to be extremely hard to find these days; but whether another group would be a "good substitute" or not depends on how you feel their goal and shared beliefs mesh with your own.

                  What I can say is that I think you should focus on finding a group that is conducive to your spiritual needs. Personally, I worship alone although I sometimes share my worship with a coven (loosely defined and not necessarily very similar in our belief systems) or with my family.

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                    #24
                    Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                    I've been looking at some Greek coins (Thracian) from the first or second century BC, and I'm finding that Dionysos often comes up paired with Heracles.

                    Generally, there will be the head of Dionysos on one side, and a nude full figure of Dionysos on the other - or a grape bunch, or a grape arbor - which makes sense, but sometimes it's Heracles (you can tell by what the figure is holding - grapes fo Dionysos, a lion skin for Heracles).

                    Aside from having the same pappy, is there any particular reason (that you know of) for these two to be paired up? Maybe it's just a stylistic thing, but it got me wondering...
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                      I just realized I haven't answered your question, Corbin, even though I've read it several times. I've been doing some reading about it, because I don't know a lot about Heracles, but I promise to come back and answer it when I learn enough to actually say something worthwhile

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                        #26
                        Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                        Just wanted to pop in quickly and share this beautiful telling of The Bacchae from Brad Mays!

                        It's really good.

                        ETA: Oh, and NSFW.
                        Last edited by Raphaeline; 19 Feb 2011, 18:03.

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                          #27
                          Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                          Today, I celebrated the Festival of Dionysos Triumphant! It's a new festival, with no ancient roots, that ... well, here's Sannion's words (I've typed the same thing three times already in a journal, an email and a facebook group so I'm taking shortcuts!):

                          Festival to honor Dionysos’ victory in the Indian Conquest and his establishment of peace, prosperity and culture in the lands he passed through during his wandering. Make an effigy of The Enemy (symbolizing Deriades, Lykourgos, Pentheus and all the rest who opposed him, as well as the obstacles in our own path which Dionysos helps remove) and then ritually destroy it. After the destruction, a joyful celebration full of feasting, singing, dancing and intoxication. The feast is Indian food. Decoration should include vegetation, phalloi, bulls, elephants, peacocks, etc. A procession at night to spread his blessings throughout the city.

                          Now, I should have taken pictures of our dinner at the Indian restaurant - a local group that I've recently met and become friends with accompanied me and I had a very nice time! I had Indian food for the FIRST TIME in my life and ... how has it taken so long?!

                          But before that, I burned the effigy.

                          My family helped me build it, but because the little man was so fussy and ready for a nap, I was alone when I destroyed it. It was a very... cathartic ritual, really emotional, and pretty darn powerful. I pretty much took out some rage on it - I strung it up, tore it apart, burned it and threw it in a creek. While I was standing there, reflecting on the ritual, a weasel came bounding down the bank of the stream. I was only able to get a quick shot of it and a video a few seconds long, operating my phone like a madwoman because I really wanted a good image of him. I'd never seen a weasel before in my life and I wasn't entirely certain that it was what I was looking at, so I wanted something to compare it with when I got to Google images.

                          That's also when I learned that, in ancient Greek mythology, the weasel is a symbol of achieved justice.

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                            #28
                            Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                            I hosted my first bacchanal on July 30!

                            I was really nervous that it wouldn't go well, but I was very, very pleasantly surprised! I provided decorations, ivy crowns and the shrine as well as cakes and grapes and a bottle of merlot - my five guests, who I was afraid wouldn't be very interested or invested in the evening, brought a total of six more bottles of wine, creme horns, fresh bread, strawberries and blackberries, a Greek salad and lots of chocolate, not to mention the gifts that most of them brought for ME (including chocolate milk since I couldn't partake of the chocolate wine, perfume, incense and flowers). We danced and meditated and drank and laughed and celebrated Dionysos in the way he deserved - loudly and well into the night! Three went home and the other two stayed the night.

                            When I woke up the next morning (unintentionally late since my little toddler wasn't home to wake me up at the crack of dawn), they had left me breakfast, cleaned the house and wrote a letter of thanks.

                            It was a really awesome experience!

                            I'd love to post pictures of the celebrants but I would hate to do so without their permission, so instead I'll post pictures of the shrine.





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                              #29
                              Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                              Awe, Rafe, that's awesome!

                              Beautiful pictures, too. I have some from yesterday that I want to post, but they turned out pretty dark and sad.
                              Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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                                #30
                                Re: Dionysos Worship Q&A

                                Thank you!

                                What did you take pictures of? I'm sorry, I'm sure it's something I should know about, I've been missing my computer a lot lately and I'm not caught up with everyone!

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