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    Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

    During a Victoria's Secret fashion show, one of the models was dressed in leopard print undies, high heels, a Native American headdress, and turquoise. Here's the scoop - and yes, there is a picture...

    Needless to say, somebody got mad.

    Not because she didn't take her underwear off, like you'd imagine, but because wearing the headdress was a terrible insult to Native Americans.

    So what do you think? Was this disrespectful enough to get pissed about, or are we looking at another overblown tempest in a teapot?
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.


    #2
    Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

    I'm tempted to say it's a bit overdone - but then, I can understand where the native americans are coming from. Would Catholics get offended if VS published a 'sexy pope outfit', or would the pagan community get offended (not likely) if she came out wearing nothing but a pentacle and a robe?

    I think they should realize (they being the angry folk) that it's just for fashion, and no disrespect was made, but I think the fashion industry too should be made more aware of things which could cause cultural strife.

    We live (unfortunately) in a very PC age.


    Mostly art.

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      #3
      Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

      Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
      Would Catholics get offended if VS published a 'sexy pope outfit'...
      LMAO - there is a whole sub-genre of porn that involves women dressed like nuns engaging in some very unnun-like activities
      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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        #4
        Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

        I've got to agree with the Native Americans on this one. They're still struggling for economic and social equality, fair media representation, civil right protections, you name it. I see another angle on it completely, though - and I think it's more serious than just being culturally offended.

        I was watching a community outreach show on Sunday morning, and they had guest speakers from our local Paiute and Yaqui tribes. Something like one in three (or it may have been one in four, can't quite remember - they were throwing a lot of numbers around) Native American women living on reservations today has been raped, usually before she's an adult. NA women are twice as likely as the national average to be sexually assaulted or the victim of attempted rape.

        While we can all talk about sexual empowerment, and that women have the right to wear whatever lingerie they want to, in public if they want to... We can also talk about rape not being a sexual crime, but one of power... VS sells sexually charged clothing. So yeah, having a near-nude model prancing around on a runway wearing Native American garb was not a savvy move for them.

        NA Mortality Rate Disparities

        USDOJ Report on Violence Against Women in Indian Country

        About.com - NA Women and Rape
        The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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          #5
          Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

          I think Victoria secret is just being a scapegoat goat here. When it comes to art and creativity we borrow from many other cultures and people. There is nothing hateful about this at all. I've seen some racist things and ideals directed at native Americans. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. We are to caught up with making mountains out of mole hills we ignore important things and hate lives on.

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            #6
            Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

            While I thought she was a very pretty lady, the native american culture is still not even remotely in a position of equality. Theyare still being oppressed in a way people like to think doesn't happen in this country anymore. It just is not ok to do these things to a group that has been pushed to the edge of extinction, (and in some places beyond.) Thereare still places for cultural sensitivity, and I feel like this is it right here, yes VS could definately issue a better apology, but their time would be better served trying to make some small ammend, like help raise awareness, or something. I don't think this is really the place for a get over it mentality.
            http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

            But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
            ~Jim Butcher

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              #7
              Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

              Perz beat me to it. It's not about "feelings" as much as an ongoing reminder that a culture is sexually fetishized further when they are still dealing with lots of rape, not to mention other issues. With Victoria Secret they played on the "Indian princess" fetish that some are trying to get rid of because of the usually racist and sexual origins:

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              "...leave me curled up in my ball,
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              ill prepared, but willing,
              to descend."

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                #8
                Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

                I didn't know how I felt 'til I read this (Thanks!):

                Originally posted by Djnn View Post
                I think Victoria secret is just being a scapegoat goat here. When it comes to art and creativity we borrow from many other cultures and people. There is nothing hateful about this at all. I've seen some racist things and ideals directed at native Americans. Imitation is the highest form of flattery. We are to caught up with making mountains out of mole hills we ignore important things and hate lives on.
                Look at it again - there's nothing wrong with that. It's not pornography. It's art. It's not degrading, unless it's degrading for people to imagine that things from other cultures can't be beautiful objects in their own right. Unless you're hung up on the idea that any picture of an attractive lady is always degrading.
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                  #9
                  Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

                  I didn't see where anyone expressed issues with someone expressing their sexuality or appreciating the beauty of a culture. I saw people expressing an issue when part of a culture that has nothing to do with sexuality is sexually fetishized.
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                  "...leave me curled up in my ball,
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                  ill prepared, but willing,
                  to descend."

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                    #10
                    Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

                    Originally posted by Caelia View Post
                    Perz beat me to it. It's not about "feelings" as much as an ongoing reminder that a culture is sexually fetishized further when they are still dealing with lots of rape, not to mention other issues. With Victoria Secret they played on the "Indian princess" fetish that some are trying to get rid of because of the usually racist and sexual origins:

                    http://red-face.us/
                    This is tricky, because I'll admit that I also find it kind of rude, in a way, like rubbing their collective noses in an ongoing problem - kind of like a comedian making jokes about disaster victims.

                    But on the other hand, if you want to talk about fetishes, you want to remember that people don't pick their kinks - they just find they are drawn toward them. But not allowing fetish material doesn't make the fetish go away... Without the relief of fantasy, it just leaves the "perv" (used sarcasticly, since we all have our kinks) wanting it even more...

                    P.S. - this isn't actually one of my personal kinks, but I can see why somebody might find this attractive.
                    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                      #11
                      Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

                      True, some fetishes aren't decided. However it becomes a problem when the fetish is dehumanizing and nonconsentual. There's a tumblr (warning: impending tumblr link) that does a better job of putting into perspective than I can: Les Blanches Exotiques
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                      "...leave me curled up in my ball,
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                      ill prepared, but willing,
                      to descend."

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                        #12
                        Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

                        Should awareness over Native Americans issues be raised? Yes.

                        Am I gonna go headhunting a fashion industry for not considering that problem? No.

                        Would I be highly impressed if the fashion industry in question decided to expend some time and money raising awareness about Native American issues as a gesture of goodwill? Yes.
                        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


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                          #13
                          Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

                          Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post

                          Would I be highly impressed if the fashion industry in question decided to expend some time and money raising awareness about Native American issues as a gesture of goodwill? Yes.
                          Yeah, I'm not holding my breath on this one either. If Urban Outfitter is any indication of what we can expect, the half-hearted apology is about as much as anyone's gonna get.
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                          "...leave me curled up in my ball,
                          surrounded by plush, downy things,
                          ill prepared, but willing,
                          to descend."

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                            #14
                            Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

                            I may be on the wrong side of the pond for this one, but while it does seem like they didn't put much thought into any upset they could cause, VS were just using the Native American headdress to represent November (Thanksgiving I would assume) - don't kids all over the country dress up like Native Americans complete with headdress in pageants etc? The only thing that seems to be causing an upset here is the fact that it's a pretty woman with very little clothes on. That in itself isn't sexualised - it only becomes such if you make it. In many tribes, both from ye olden days and now, the women are topless or even naked. Nudity in itself isn't sexual, it's just a state of being. If only those who have earned the respect are allowed to wear the headdress, there's going to be a lot of unhappy 7 year olds this year.

                            Ok, that was a bit rambly. Sorry!
                            ~J

                            "The very young do not always do as they are told."

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                              #15
                              Re: Cultural insult? Semi-naked ladies and feathers

                              I have a sneaking suspicion Native American women have donned the sexy Native American look a time or two.
                              Satan is my spirit animal

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