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    Suicide: a different debate

    This is about suicide. So I'm going to assume right now people will be very passionate about this topic. And people will throw in their emotional experience when talking about this topic. And people will lose their shiznat when talking about this topic.

    Let's not do that, ok?

    So with that. This isn't about suicide right or wrong. Lots of debates are about that. But...
    Can you blame someone for suicide? Like a bully who pushes you into suicide. A parent who is intolerant of your beliefs. A spouse who abuses you. Suicide is by far a personal action that technically can only be performed willingly by the person. So what are your thoughts?

    *And I'm not referring to medical or mental illnesses. That's another topic altogether.
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    #2
    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    I do believe if the mental duress is enough people can be driven to do anything, suicide included.
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      #3
      Re: Suicide: a different debate

      Can I blame them? Well, everyone has a breaking point. I'd rather people fight for their life and for their happiness (especially if I know them), but I can see why people commit suicide in extreme situations. When it's not so extreme, it makes me feel kind of sad, like "Things would've gotten better if you just hung on a little longer" :-( Especially when it comes to high school bullying, because things do change considerably once you're out of that situation and into the 'real world'.

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        #4
        Re: Suicide: a different debate

        Suicide is so complex, especially the reasoning behind it. It's really hard to focus just on turning an abuser or bully into a murderer.

        Even though I was abused and bullied as a kid, when I attempted suicide when I was 11, it wasn't about my bullies or abusers - it was about being cornered and having a dead-end future. It was about not being able to face one more day on earth. Just like when I attempted it other times before I was 18. I'm sure being abused and bullied didn't help my overall emotional health or well-being, but it wasn't really why I did it. If I attempt it again, it would be for similar reasons, and I'm no longer abused or bullied. Which is really the problem I have with the notion that bullies and abusers are attempting murder somehow. It pulls the focus away from the person choosing death over life and places it on someone who is essentially clueless about the person they're tormenting.

        Prevention of abuse in all its forms is important. Teaching people to recognize it when they see it happen, and intervening when they can is important. Teaching kids how to handle it when they are the target of a bully, giving them a support system that works when they're being abused - all very important. But confusing abuse/bullying with murder is confusing correlation with causation.
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          #5
          Re: Suicide: a different debate

          Originally posted by Medusa View Post
          This is about suicide. So I'm going to assume right now people will be very passionate about this topic. And people will throw in their emotional experience when talking about this topic. And people will lose their shiznat when talking about this topic.

          Let's not do that, ok?

          So with that. This isn't about suicide right or wrong. Lots of debates are about that. But...
          Can you blame someone for suicide? Like a bully who pushes you into suicide. A parent who is intolerant of your beliefs. A spouse who abuses you. Suicide is by far a personal action that technically can only be performed willingly by the person. So what are your thoughts?

          *And I'm not referring to medical or mental illnesses. That's another topic altogether.
          I don't think you can commit suicide without being mentally ill.

          As with all things it is a mixture of genetics and environment that makes someone prone to depression and suicide. So yes an abusive or neglectful parent would be very much to blame if their child commited suicide. School bullies and/or abusive partners would be less to blame because they don't provide the genetics and by the time a person meets an abusive partner (or even a school bully) their parents have had a major effect on what kind of person they are and how they deal with that negativity.

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            #6
            Re: Suicide: a different debate

            People commit suicide for a variety of reasons. And I don't think you have to be mentally ill in order to do it, although many would probably have been in despair or at the end of their tether.

            But yes. There are occasions when I would blame others for someone feeling driven to take their own life.

            Because IMHO - there are worse things than dying.
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              #7
              Re: Suicide: a different debate

              Originally posted by Caelia View Post
              I do believe if the mental duress is enough people can be driven to do anything, suicide included.
              I pretty much just agree with this.


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                #8
                Re: Suicide: a different debate

                Originally posted by Medusa View Post
                Can you blame someone for suicide? Like a bully who pushes you into suicide. A parent who is intolerant of your beliefs. A spouse who abuses you. Suicide is by far a personal action that technically can only be performed willingly by the person. So what are your thoughts?
                I can condemn mental or physical abuse. I won't typically take that so far as to call the abuser a murderer if their victim suicides. Theoretically, if you present me a case where someone deliberately set out to harass and torment a person with the specific goal of breaking them down until they see suicide as the only way out, I might call that murder but the burden of proof required for me to make the jump from "the deceased was continually harassed and tormented by a sick **** who needs to see the inside of cell for stalking/harrassment/assault/other useful charge" to "the deceased was continually harrassed and tormented by a sick **** in a perverse campaign to convince him/her that his/her life had no value and that suicide was the only recourse. Strap the abuser to a table and put the censored-for-younger-readers down." is huge.
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                  #9
                  Re: Suicide: a different debate

                  I think when suicide gets really interesting (no offense) is when you have Person A that's suffering, has a horrible living situation, perhaps even live in a terrible country or be riddled with disease~ yet they fight to stay alive and fight to have a shred of happiness. Then there's Person B that says "Obama is president, I'm going to kill myself" *dead*
                  O_o The human psyche is very complex.

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                    #10
                    Re: Suicide: a different debate

                    Originally posted by Moody Thursday View Post
                    I think when suicide gets really interesting (no offense) is when you have Person A that's suffering, has a horrible living situation, perhaps even live in a terrible country or be riddled with disease~ yet they fight to stay alive and fight to have a shred of happiness. Then there's Person B that says "Obama is president, I'm going to kill myself" *dead*
                    O_o The human psyche is very complex.
                    Precisely. My sister tried to kill herself because she wasn't allowed to do what she wanted at home, and therefore life wasn't worth living. My mother however, has had to deal with 25 years of things that I can't even fathom, in the depths of my heart, and yet, she still calls me to tell me she loves me, and tries to make the best life for her children (if not always for herself.)


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                      #11
                      Re: Suicide: a different debate

                      When we talk about bullying or abuse at home, persistent abuse can basically be defined as torture. Torture, for eons, has been a contributor for suicidal thoughts and actions. Bereavement, pride in some cultures, and feelings of hopelessness can all be defined under the same broad category if you see it for its similarities and long-term effects on the individual's well-being.

                      That being said, it is up to the individual in the end to make that decision. And I am not of the mind that you need to be mentally ill to do so. But, the one's who are really interested in committing that final act because they see no other alternative could also have had a counter-force against those thoughts simply by having someone on the outside who was understanding, accepting, and supportive. That's not always enough to make someone really consider getting real help for their issues, but it's so much better than those who don't have anyone there to talk to or who knows what's going on. In that light, the abusers can be blamed because they couldn't think twice about the effect they were having on the other person. Torture by ignorance doesn't negate the fact that it's torture.

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                        #12
                        Re: Suicide: a different debate

                        I also agree that you don't have to be mentally unstable to want to commit suicide. Sometimes life can give a single individual a great deal of pain, to where they can logically figure that nothing could be worse, even death. Actually, they might even see death as an escape.
                        I think it all depends on the level of willpower one single person has. Tolerance to whatever is going on around them. Or even, just have a simple fear of death that isn't worth the suicide.
                        That's why I mention someone with great difficulties who wants to survive, and someone with minor difficulties who would just give up. I believe it's up to the individual's will to live.

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                          #13
                          Re: Suicide: a different debate

                          Yes. Words can be stronger than actions and we should be held accountable for what we say. Great power and great responsibility and whatnot.
                          /Peter Parker
                          [4:82]

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                            #14
                            Re: Suicide: a different debate

                            I don't do blame.

                            There's personal responsibility and there's a chain of events.

                            Suicide is no different than choosing Cheerios over Corn Flakes, in that regard.





                            Personally, however, I am torn up over the issues, the psychobabble and the stigmas revolving around suicide. But then, everyone knows I'm mentally ill, anyway. I'm human, it's a side effect of it.




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                              #15
                              Re: Suicide: a different debate

                              Humans are cute.

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