Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: Suicide: a different debate

  1. #1
    Nihilistic Goddess Medusa's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    10,293
    Religion
    LaVeyan Satanist
    Phrase
    A Clockwork orange

    Suicide: a different debate

    This is about suicide. So I'm going to assume right now people will be very passionate about this topic. And people will throw in their emotional experience when talking about this topic. And people will lose their shiznat when talking about this topic.

    Let's not do that, ok?

    So with that. This isn't about suicide right or wrong. Lots of debates are about that. But...
    Can you blame someone for suicide? Like a bully who pushes you into suicide. A parent who is intolerant of your beliefs. A spouse who abuses you. Suicide is by far a personal action that technically can only be performed willingly by the person. So what are your thoughts?

    *And I'm not referring to medical or mental illnesses. That's another topic altogether.
    Satan is my spirit animal

  2. #2
    Silver Member Caelia's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Posts
    2,160
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Kemetic
    Location
    Kansas
    Phrase
    Ferocious as a furby

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    I do believe if the mental duress is enough people can be driven to do anything, suicide included.
    my etsy store
    My blog


    "...leave me curled up in my ball,
    surrounded by plush, downy things,
    ill prepared, but willing,
    to descend."

  3. #3
    Moody Thursday
    Guest

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    Can I blame them? Well, everyone has a breaking point. I'd rather people fight for their life and for their happiness (especially if I know them), but I can see why people commit suicide in extreme situations. When it's not so extreme, it makes me feel kind of sad, like "Things would've gotten better if you just hung on a little longer" :-( Especially when it comes to high school bullying, because things do change considerably once you're out of that situation and into the 'real world'.

  4. #4
    Cannibal Rights Activist Ophidia's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Aug 2008
    Posts
    2,905
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Ophidism
    Location
    Las Vegas, NV
    Phrase
    I like Nature, just not on me.

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    Suicide is so complex, especially the reasoning behind it. It's really hard to focus just on turning an abuser or bully into a murderer.

    Even though I was abused and bullied as a kid, when I attempted suicide when I was 11, it wasn't about my bullies or abusers - it was about being cornered and having a dead-end future. It was about not being able to face one more day on earth. Just like when I attempted it other times before I was 18. I'm sure being abused and bullied didn't help my overall emotional health or well-being, but it wasn't really why I did it. If I attempt it again, it would be for similar reasons, and I'm no longer abused or bullied. Which is really the problem I have with the notion that bullies and abusers are attempting murder somehow. It pulls the focus away from the person choosing death over life and places it on someone who is essentially clueless about the person they're tormenting.

    Prevention of abuse in all its forms is important. Teaching people to recognize it when they see it happen, and intervening when they can is important. Teaching kids how to handle it when they are the target of a bully, giving them a support system that works when they're being abused - all very important. But confusing abuse/bullying with murder is confusing correlation with causation.
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

  5. #5
    Banned!
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    358
    Gender
    female
    Religion
    Eclectic Pagan Witch
    Location
    England
    Phrase
    "The best ideas often come from the worst minds."

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    This is about suicide. So I'm going to assume right now people will be very passionate about this topic. And people will throw in their emotional experience when talking about this topic. And people will lose their shiznat when talking about this topic.

    Let's not do that, ok?

    So with that. This isn't about suicide right or wrong. Lots of debates are about that. But...
    Can you blame someone for suicide? Like a bully who pushes you into suicide. A parent who is intolerant of your beliefs. A spouse who abuses you. Suicide is by far a personal action that technically can only be performed willingly by the person. So what are your thoughts?

    *And I'm not referring to medical or mental illnesses. That's another topic altogether.
    I don't think you can commit suicide without being mentally ill.

    As with all things it is a mixture of genetics and environment that makes someone prone to depression and suicide. So yes an abusive or neglectful parent would be very much to blame if their child commited suicide. School bullies and/or abusive partners would be less to blame because they don't provide the genetics and by the time a person meets an abusive partner (or even a school bully) their parents have had a major effect on what kind of person they are and how they deal with that negativity.

  6. #6
    Silver Member Tylluan Penry's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    3,256
    Religion
    solitary pagan witch with a strong interest in Anglo Saxons
    Location
    South Wales Valleys, UK
    Phrase
    Phantom Turnips never die. They just get stewed occasionally....

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    People commit suicide for a variety of reasons. And I don't think you have to be mentally ill in order to do it, although many would probably have been in despair or at the end of their tether.

    But yes. There are occasions when I would blame others for someone feeling driven to take their own life.

    Because IMHO - there are worse things than dying.
    www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


    Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

  7. #7
    bibliophibian volcaniclastic's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,056
    Religion
    Finding sanctity.
    Location
    Canada
    Phrase
    Mistress of the Ban

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Caelia View Post
    I do believe if the mental duress is enough people can be driven to do anything, suicide included.
    I pretty much just agree with this.
    “The world is big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.” – John Muir

    Mostly art.

  8. #8
    PF Ordo Hereticus MaskedOne's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    7,880
    Religion
    Jedi
    Location
    elsewhere
    Phrase
    The ability to destroy a planet is insignificant compared to the power of the Force.

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Medusa View Post
    Can you blame someone for suicide? Like a bully who pushes you into suicide. A parent who is intolerant of your beliefs. A spouse who abuses you. Suicide is by far a personal action that technically can only be performed willingly by the person. So what are your thoughts?
    I can condemn mental or physical abuse. I won't typically take that so far as to call the abuser a murderer if their victim suicides. Theoretically, if you present me a case where someone deliberately set out to harass and torment a person with the specific goal of breaking them down until they see suicide as the only way out, I might call that murder but the burden of proof required for me to make the jump from "the deceased was continually harassed and tormented by a sick **** who needs to see the inside of cell for stalking/harrassment/assault/other useful charge" to "the deceased was continually harrassed and tormented by a sick **** in a perverse campaign to convince him/her that his/her life had no value and that suicide was the only recourse. Strap the abuser to a table and put the censored-for-younger-readers down." is huge.
    "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
    ―Thon

    "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

    Yoda

    Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis



  9. #9
    Moody Thursday
    Guest

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    I think when suicide gets really interesting (no offense) is when you have Person A that's suffering, has a horrible living situation, perhaps even live in a terrible country or be riddled with disease~ yet they fight to stay alive and fight to have a shred of happiness. Then there's Person B that says "Obama is president, I'm going to kill myself" *dead*
    O_o The human psyche is very complex.

  10. #10
    bibliophibian volcaniclastic's Avatar
    Reputation
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    5,056
    Religion
    Finding sanctity.
    Location
    Canada
    Phrase
    Mistress of the Ban

    Re: Suicide: a different debate

    Quote Originally Posted by Moody Thursday View Post
    I think when suicide gets really interesting (no offense) is when you have Person A that's suffering, has a horrible living situation, perhaps even live in a terrible country or be riddled with disease~ yet they fight to stay alive and fight to have a shred of happiness. Then there's Person B that says "Obama is president, I'm going to kill myself" *dead*
    O_o The human psyche is very complex.
    Precisely. My sister tried to kill herself because she wasn't allowed to do what she wanted at home, and therefore life wasn't worth living. My mother however, has had to deal with 25 years of things that I can't even fathom, in the depths of my heart, and yet, she still calls me to tell me she loves me, and tries to make the best life for her children (if not always for herself.)
    “The world is big and I want to have a good look at it before it gets dark.” – John Muir

    Mostly art.

Similar Threads

  1. Why Suicide Bombings and the beliefs behind them
    By anunitu in forum Abrahamic Traditions
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 19 Jul 2015, 16:27
  2. Suicide and the afterlife
    By TheMadCrow in forum Heathen Traditions
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: 09 Jun 2015, 08:00
  3. Are there repercussions for suicide?
    By Tarn in forum Pagan Traditions & Discussion
    Replies: 18
    Last Post: 08 Jan 2014, 19:32
  4. Dreaming about Suicide
    By yukanaoe in forum Divination & Astrology
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10 May 2011, 02:35

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •