Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

Collapse
This topic is closed.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #31
    Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

    Originally posted by westwoden View Post
    For not doing anything about it.

    Revolution, regime change, fighting for rights etc. - this could have been attempted.

    They sat back and allowed the cronies to sell them out, and thus had to pay the consequences.

    No use blaming it on the outsiders - like I said, many of these folk never grew spines.
    A few things here. First of all, it's a lot more complex than that. In North and South America, the spread of previously unknown diseases wiped out large populations before the Europeans took over. They weren't in a position to fight back at all. They were dying. As for Africa, the slave trade was largely aided by local leaders, but it's a lot more complicated than you're making it out to be. Also, a lot of countries are suffering from the after effects of dictatorships in more recent times, which were often fueled by the cold war.

    Secondly, even if those countries are largely involved in their own instability, economics are a lot more complicated than "fend for yourself". As stated in my above example, Europe was in this position not too long ago. Especially Germany...it was FLATTENED after the War, and it was Germany's own fault (more or less...we could go into the destabilizing effects of the Treaty of Versailles but this is a different topic). Had Germany and the other devastated European countries been left to fend for themselves, it's not likely the US market would have expanded as it did.

    Thirdly, is it the fault of the people of the present for deeds done by leaders in the past? If so, we're ALL screwed in some way, shape, or form.

    Countries don't exist in a bubble. Global economics are influenced by other countries. Western countries are in the position they are in because of international trade.

    Comment


      #32
      Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

      I agree with the 'strategic investment' point made above.


      Foreign aid is only about self-interest.

      The powers that be armed Iraq when it suited them, then invaded when it did not.

      The man on the street does not even enter the equation.

      - - - Updated - - -

      Originally posted by Dumuzi View Post
      I have no idea what you just said. My question is very direct. Someone is fighting against oppression, do they or do they not deserve our help to win the fight against oppression?
      Well, that of course depends on the situation.

      If the fight against oppression benefits the donor nation then yes, otherwise no.

      Comment


        #33
        Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

        I'd also like to point out (since you seem to be there) that the UK was a very large recipient in the Marshall Plan. Yes, your country was a foreign aid recipient.

        Comment


          #34
          Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

          The thing about helping ourselves out first - it's like this. We sent a bunch of people to Haiti after the hurricane & earthquake, not just money or supplies. Now, Haiti has been denuded of much of its natural resources. People who are considered well off are starving there, too. AIDS/HIV, malaria, parasitic infections, all that is still quite abundant. Overnight, Haiti's population swelled by several thousand military, professionals and civilians all wanting to help, which is noble and understandable. If you're going to send money and supplies to a nation with a bad history of corrupt leaders, you also want to send people there to make sure it's distributed fairly.

          However, where are you going to put all those extra bodies? How are you going to feed them and keep them healthy, along with the native population who is already struggling with clean water and safe housing issues? In August of 2012, there were over 400,000 people still living in tent cities when Hurricane Isaac struck. What the heck did all those extra people do in the time between the earthquake and Isaac? Whatever it was, it sure wasn't building or rebuilding sturdy shelters. They did, however, hand out leaflets explaining how to batten down a tent to better survive a hurricane.

          We have a large military - why not set it to work here at home, building actual housing (good, sturdy, non-slum-quality housing) for homeless people? Hell, turn some of the abandoned factories & warehouses into housing. Why not use imminent domain turn some vacant lots into small farms? Or if actual charity is too far out of line, set those government employees to fixing infrastructure problems, like crumbling dams, bridges, roads, updating utility lines, etc. in areas too poor to do it themselves? Reinstate the WPA in a sense (without giving grants to people to write really bad novels). Then, once we have some experience actually doing stuff like that, then send our engineers to assist other countries in rebuilding or developing.

          America's been offered foreign aid. In the aftermath of Katrina we refused it. It makes me wonder if we had accepted any decent amount of it, would we have been better able to respond to people in Louisiana and other Gulf states? Would our government have made sure the money, supplies & man-hours went to the people in most need, or would it have stuffed it in a mattress, so to speak? Or did the government see what had happened in Haiti & said to itself, "Hey, we don't need any more people running around out there in the Gulf..."
          The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

          Comment


            #35
            Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

            Originally posted by perzephone View Post
            We have a large military - why not set it to work here at home, building actual housing (good, sturdy, non-slum-quality housing) for homeless people? Hell, turn some of the abandoned factories & warehouses into housing. Why not use imminent domain turn some vacant lots into small farms? Or if actual charity is too far out of line, set those government employees to fixing infrastructure problems, like crumbling dams, bridges, roads, updating utility lines, etc. in areas too poor to do it themselves? Reinstate the WPA in a sense (without giving grants to people to write really bad novels). Then, once we have some experience actually doing stuff like that, then send our engineers to assist other countries in rebuilding or developing.
            I know what you are saying - you've got these people, such as the military, who need to be trained anyway. Why not train them by having them do construction, fix those bridges, and possibly get me high speed internet?

            The reason why is this: How many citizens would be put out of work if this is done?
            Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

            Comment


              #36
              Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

              Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
              The reason why is this: How many citizens would be put out of work if this is done?
              In a lot of places, they're not working on their infrastructures because the local state/county governments can't afford to pay people to do it. I remember seeing shanties, literal tin houses, out in the boonies when I lived in Tennessee as a kid. In 2000, before Katrina made it worse, there were people living the same way in Louisiana. Our Southeastern states could use some assistance - it seems like some places still haven't recovered from the Civil War. There are public hospitals, schools, etc. all over the place that are a few years away from becoming derelict.

              The military is being paid no matter what they do - build a bridge or fight a war. Why not do something constructive for a change? And the military does use civilian contractors - I've even applied for a few of those jobs where they're looking for file clerks & PBX operators.
              The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

              Comment


                #37
                Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                The Army Corp of Engineers does handle certain domestic infrastructure issues. I don't particularly have any problem with expanding their operations. I wouldn't try using much beyond them at this moment but expanding their operations or assigning similar units to assist them might work out well.

                Just make sure that state officials are fully briefed on
                this act. Tasking relevant units with construction roles is one thing but there are legal issues if said state officials are running low on available police and try to borrow the nearest MP unit.
                life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                Comment


                  #38
                  Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                  Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                  The Army Corp of Engineers does handle certain domestic infrastructure issues. I don't particularly have any problem with expanding their operations. I wouldn't try using much beyond them at this moment but expanding their operations or assigning similar units to assist them might work out well.

                  Just make sure that state officials are fully briefed on
                  this act. Tasking relevant units with construction roles is one thing but there are legal issues if said state officials are running low on available police and try to borrow the nearest MP unit.
                  The answer for that is national guard. The governor has the authority of the national guard, and after the governor, the president.
                  http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

                  But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
                  ~Jim Butcher

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                    True. Long as the governor and his staff remember which is which. Forgetting can be messy. Does the state have to foot the bill when the governor deploys the guard? I'm pretty sure the Feds do whenever the Prez calls them into Federal service (at which point the aforementioned act would apply I believe) but I don't know what budget they draw from otherwise.
                    life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                    Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                    "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                    John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                    "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                    Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                    Comment


                      #40
                      Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                      Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                      True. Long as the governor and his staff remember which is which. Forgetting can be messy. Does the state have to foot the bill when the governor deploys the guard? I'm pretty sure the Feds do whenever the Prez calls them into Federal service (at which point the aforementioned act would apply I believe) but I don't know what budget they draw from otherwise.
                      The question about who foots the bill is a good one, and it largely depends on the situation, The national guard is deplaoyable in a whole lot of situations for a really stupid number of reasons, by a great many people, I know it is much simpler to deploy the guard in their home state than it is to deploy them out of country, but the specific financials are a good question, I do know each state maintains its guard services independantly of one another, so I imagine it is state funded, excluding emergency situations, (i.e. a national emergency is a national emergency, and I do believe thatthe work of any of the guard in for instance new jersey after the disaster was federal funded.) But I will see what I can do to find more specific info, I didn't manage alot of the pay aspects, so I am left with info from the wrong branch (active and reserve vs guard)

                      I will say, however, that regardless of what your actual job is supposed to be, they can order you to whatever training and work they want (they being military superiors) If you posess the GT score for a job, you can be made to train for it and do it in many cases. Eigther train for something different or get out happens in the guard as every state does not maintain the same types of units. Delaware does not maintain an infantry unit, so if you want to work in the guard here, you get to pick an available job, or not be in the guard.
                      Last edited by Maria de Luna; 28 Nov 2012, 12:43.
                      http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

                      But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
                      ~Jim Butcher

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                        Well, here is a point of view I hadn't seen before. An economist from Kenya says giving aid to Africa does more harm than good. (Article from 2005)

                        Also, the PBS documentary, "Pray the Devil Back to Hell", shows that people aren't just sitting on their hands receiving aid. They're suffering and fighting back. These women from Liberia fought back to stop the madness~ and the government almost said "Kill them all, we'll bring more women from another country".
                        PBS's "Women, War, & Peace" is actually a very interesting series that not only sheds a light on what/how women are doing in times of crisis, but also on what's going on in other countries in general.

                        So I guess my final point of view (I reeeally need to get off the internet!) on foreign aid is about the same as Welfare, Food Stamps, Section 8, etc. I believe it is a great help, but I also believe we need to put the breaks on it and monitor it a lot better, because it seems like there's a huge chunk of people abusing what's supposed to be aid for the needy.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                          I'm not too happy with the US giving money to other countries when there are displaced people here. The Appalachians & the Ozarks are afflicted with generational poverty. I've heard about a lot of Katrina issues, and I know first-hand that Sandy isn't being handled as well as it should, that some people are falling through the cracks and desperately need help.
                          We bailed out some corporations, we bailed out some homeowners due to predatory lending - how about bailing out some of these folks?
                          sigpic
                          Can you hear me, Major Tom? I think I love you.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                            Originally posted by perzephone View Post
                            The military is being paid no matter what they do - build a bridge or fight a war. Why not do something constructive for a change?
                            Because the military is the military, and young men don't sign up to be builders or plumbers.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                              Originally posted by westwoden View Post
                              Because the military is the military, and young men don't sign up to be builders or plumbers.
                              In the military, you follow orders. If the orders are build a bridge or fix the toilet, that's what you do. I don't think the military has much use for prima donnas.

                              You might want to look into the reasons why the Roman Legions were able to conquer most of the known world.
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Re: Should Developed Countries Give Aid to Developing Countries?

                                Originally posted by westwoden View Post
                                Because the military is the military, and young men don't sign up to be builders or plumbers.
                                Yeah, my husband signed up for the Air Force to be a fighter jet pilot (just like a lot of guys did and probably still do), and ended up in flight tech school being trained to 'set up and establish communications lines'. Meaning he was a telephone repair guy.
                                The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X