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Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

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    #16
    Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

    Originally posted by AL!CE View Post
    Next you'll be telling me that Venus isn't the same Goddess as Aphrodite. Changing the name and adding some extra mythology does not a new God/Goddess make.
    ...Many people will tell you exactly that. Their myths don't all match up, and the Romans were notorius syncretists, so it is very difficult to tell if they actually plucked up the greek gods, or had their own that they mixed the Greek gods into... they did that alot, just because they called Odin Mercury when they encountered him, does'nt make it so...
    Then again, some people feel like all the gods from all the pantheons can be equated together, it really depends, on how you really feel...
    http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

    But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
    ~Jim Butcher

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      #17
      Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

      Originally posted by westwoden View Post
      How did the Druids and the Odininsts of the past get on?

      and how about today? they have many similarites, concepts etc..

      did the Anglo-Saxons of the past have any issues with the Druids?

      here is another question:

      how do I know where my roots really are?

      I am from England which is Saxon, but a quick check on my surname shows it to be of Scottish origin, hence Celtic?

      however, from my mother's side the name seems to have more French/Germanic roots. (from way back though, perhaps 200 years)

      so where does that leave me?
      By time gods like Odin or Woden reached Britain, the Druids were long dead in England.

      As for today, Druids are usually considered too eclectic for Odinists and other Heathens. Most Heathens are revivalist or reconstructionist, and spend a lot of time researching ritual, histories and arcaeology of the Vikings etc etc. Druids don't really do that. They research and stuff, but their views are much more occultist and for lack of a better word 'Wiccan'. I always associate them with eclectric witchcraft. Celtic Reconstructionist Pagans are much closer to Odinists and Heathens than modern day Druidry.

      I have the same problem when it comes to my roots. And basically, it doesn't matter. Britain is a watershed of so many different races and cultures. You will have a mix of races in your blood. Go with what you want, even if it sounds weird. For example, I'm really interested in the Celts, and I consider my ancestry to be celtic. But I worship Heathen gods because I felt more connected to them than celtic deities. So if you're confused have a look around, read some celtic or saxon myths, research some stuff. I started out reading bios of all the deities, and that was how I found the Heathen gods speaking to me much better than all the others.
      "Wealth is as swift | as a winking eye
      Of friends the falsest it is."

      Havamal, 74

      "The wolf that lies idle | shall win little meat,
      Or the sleeping man success."

      Havamal, 58

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        #18
        Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

        I have no idea how druidry works, but know that it is a fairly modern interpretation of an ancient religion. What I see around the internet is that anything goes to a certain extent, so you could probably get away within a druidic context as having Odin or Woden as your personal deity.

        As a heathen I have to say it sounds preposterous, sorry to rain on your parade.

        Also as has been stated, Woden and Odin are not wholly the same deity at all.

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          #19
          Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

          I know next to nothing about druidism, but it seems to me that Odin is closer to shamanistic practices. However, I do not think that Odin is to be totally separate from Wotan in the aspects that Wednesday quoted; Odin is the god of poets (scaldic tradition) and shamans, but also the Warlord and the Father of All. In that aspect, I believe Odin and Wotan to be similar.
          I guess the culture of worship was, indeed, different.
          "The idea is to be whispering, and not to gain the attention from the flock, but to get attention from the individuals. That's why I relate it to whispering. It's not something you can put on a big scale; you can't get sheep to attend to it. You need to have people who can stand for themselves. It is important to have a lot of space for yourself to be able to grow strong branches, which can stand in the most extreme surroundings."

          Gaahl

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            #20
            Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

            Originally posted by Wednesday View Post
            The linguist Phillip Shaw makes a good case for Odin/Woden being separate in his thesis Uses of Woden. A)The two names are not etymologically related. B)The scholarship concerning a pan-germanic allfather was anachronistic. C)The culture of worship was wholly different (ie Odin is a shaman-poet/Woden was a warrior-tradesman.)
            I'm not an expert on Norse mythology, but it seems these claims are not widely accepted. Yet you state them as fact. We have the names of other Germanic Gods who seem to have Norse counterparts. The Anglo-Saxon Thunor is not unrelated to Thor. In fact, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday demonstrate that the Anglo-Saxons had counterparts that each match up with a similarly named Norse God. Are all five of these days nothing more than coincidences as well? This similarity of names is hardly surprising, considering that Anglo-Saxon and Norse share non-religious cognates as well. So why the insistence on Wodan being different? From what I've read, even Adam of Bremen simply referred to the Scandinavian Odin as "Wodan".

            Also, you claim that Woden is simply a warrior/tradesman God, and Odin is a shaman-poet. I just don't see this stark division between the two. We have things such as the Nine Herbs Charm from England, which invoke Woden to cast a healing spell. Not what we would expect from a simple war God. We also can't completely disassociate Odin with war. After all, he was called "Father of Victory", "Victory Giver", "Spear Charger" etc. Speaking of Odin being the "Victory Giver", in "The Origin of the Lombard People" guess which God decides who will be victorious in battle? Wodan. So it is not due to similarity of names alone that the two Gods are associated.

            Some Gods are originally separate, but get syncretized together later. The Greek and Roman pantheons offer many examples of this. However, when you have two related cultures with related languages, and numerous Gods with similar names and functions, this is a difficult case to make. Next you'll say the German Wodan and Old English Woden are completely different Gods.
            If you want to be thought intelligent, just agree with everyone.

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              #21
              Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

              Originally posted by westwoden View Post
              Druidry is my number one path but I have a great leaning towards Odin and Woden as well.
              Intrestingly enough, one of the dominant theories out there is that Woden/Odin derives from a Celtic deity whose worship originated in Belgica and diffused from contact with Germanic tribes throughout Germanic-speaking Europe. By the time of the Roman Empire, this deity has displaced the war-and-farming god as the chief of the Germanic pantheon.

              is there any essential difference in the God concept here?
              and what is the difference between Woden and Odin anyway?
              They likely derive from the same root name and deity, but have different cultural interpretations. This isn't a case of two different gods being equated in a syncretic fashion. It's more that the Saxons and the Norse had different things that their cultures focused on. As the language changed, the name of their chief deity changed along with his assigned areas of interest.
              In addition, most of what we know about the figure come from Norse mythology about Odin. Woden is attested in some writings, but there is little in the way of extensive mythology.

              can one be a druid, but have Woden as the God?
              Well, that's dependent on what you view Druidism as. Modern Neodruidism is quite syncretic and eclectic, for the same reasons as Wicca: it has similar roots in the European occult and the Celtic Revival in the early 20th century, and has a similar history of taking from multiple sources to create their own thing. While certainly originally focused on Celtic mythology and cultural tradition, it has diversified since the 1960s. It's certainly possible to be a Neodruid with a focus in Germanic myth, culture, and deities. So long as you don't claim to be a reconstructionist, there's no issue. There are, after all, many ways to worship the gods.
              Last edited by Louisvillian; 04 Mar 2013, 06:56.

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                #22
                Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

                Louisvillian, I'd be interested in reading up on the Odin Celtic connection. Can you recommend anything?

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                  #23
                  Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

                  I've also heard it suggested that Odin has more of a Finnic or Uralic Shamanic character. He has a number of supposed "shamanistic" characteristics, such as sending out his mind in the form of Ravens, undergoing a ritual death to gain knowledge, climbing the world tree, etc. In either case, many scholars doubt that Odin was the chief Germanic God originally, since, the chief deity in most Indo-European pantheons is a storm/sky God.
                  If you want to be thought intelligent, just agree with everyone.

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                    #24
                    Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

                    Originally posted by Wednesday View Post
                    Louisvillian, I'd be interested in reading up on the Odin Celtic connection. Can you recommend anything?
                    I've had trouble finding extensive sources or books on the subject. Most of what I've read are brief discussions on the topic. The main basis for it comes from parallels between Odin/Woden and Lugus, both of whom were associated by the Romans with Mercury. As well as the cultural fusion of Germanic and Celtic tribes in Central and Western Germania--notably the Chatti and Belgae, who the Romans associated with the Germans and Celts, respectively, but showed aspects of both language groups and cultures.
                    The rest is conjecture, but well-reasoned conjecture. Shamanistic traits were common among Celtic gods, along with being all-skilled, a warrior, and a poet. And while such deities existed in other cultures, Celtic deities display them far more commonly. Especially in the various iterations of the aforementioned Lugus. These are all features that Odin/Woden demonstrates.

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                      #25
                      Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

                      I know that he may have been based off of deities like Regnator Omnium Deus and possibly the god of thebpre-berseker warrior fraternities. It isn't surprising at all if our final universal Odin is an amalgamation of several tribal understandings.

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                        #26
                        Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

                        Originally posted by Wednesday View Post
                        I know that he may have been based off of deities like Regnator Omnium Deus and possibly the god of thebpre-berseker warrior fraternities. It isn't surprising at all if our final universal Odin is an amalgamation of several tribal understandings.
                        Ah, now that I could accept. In fact, it makes sense if you consider all the diverse roles assigned to him.
                        Last edited by Yazichestvo; 07 Mar 2013, 23:14. Reason: grammar
                        If you want to be thought intelligent, just agree with everyone.

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                          #27
                          Re: Odinism v. Wodenism v. Druidry - help!

                          I can access some documents on the connections between Bran and Odin (and the Fisher King). Not sure if anyone feels these can help but would happily send them over if you pm me with an email address (cos I don't know how to send an attachment with a message).

                          I should add that I haven't studied these documents personally but they're taken some journals and not internet websites.
                          www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


                          Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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