I've started reading some Crowley, seems interesting enough but not sure I buy all his religious ideas - aren't they just counter-Christian?
any fans here, and is it worth getting into?
drunken, promiscuous, drug addled, aristocratic intellectual - what else?
Last edited by westwoden; 21 Dec 2012 at 23:12.
Both.
Being made up doesn't keep something from being "real" and, from a historical perspective, you really can't fairly judge Crowley (or anyone else) without understanding the world they lived in and their direct influences and their personal motivations. He comes from a really different world than we do...to judge him by modern standards is to miss both the brilliance and the hubris. And sometimes they are one and the same.
“You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom
“We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee
"We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History
"Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett
Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
Kinda, kinda not. He was a product, and reaction to, the morality and society of his times. Likewise, the counter-Christian elements of his occult system is a little bit balanced by the strongly Judaeo-Christian heritage of the Western Occult tradition as a whole. It's always had kind of a mix of Christian, or at least Jewish-Hellenic, mysticism and very heterodox (to Christianity) beliefs and ideas. It's always been very eclectic, despite the stern traditionalism and ceremonialism.Originally Posted by westwoden
I don't trust drug addicts.
Satan is my spirit animal
I drink a giant triple caff mocha every morning, just to make it thru the day.
“You have never answered but you did not need to. If I stand at the ocean I can hear you with your thousand voices. Sometimes you shout, hilarious laughter that taunts all questions. Other nights you are silent as death, a mirror in which the stars show themselves. Then I think you want to tell me something, but you never do. Of course I know I have written letters to no-one. But what if I find a trident tomorrow?" ~~Letters to Poseidon, Cees Nooteboom
“We still carry this primal relationship to the Earth within our consciousness, even if we have long forgotten it. It is a primal recognition of the wonder, beauty, and divine nature of the Earth. It is a felt reverence for all that exists. Once we bring this foundational quality into our consciousness, we will be able to respond to our present man-made crisis from a place of balance, in which our actions will be grounded in an attitude of respect for all of life. This is the nature of real sustainability.”
~~Llewellyn Vaughan-Lee
"We are the offspring of history, and must establish our own paths in this most diverse and interesting of conceivable universes--one indifferent to our suffering, and therefore offering us maximal freedom to thrive, or to fail, in our own chosen way."
~~Stephen Jay Gould, Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of History
"Humans are not rational creatures. Now, logic and rationality are very helpful tools, but there’s also a place for embracing our subjectivity and thinking symbolically. Sometimes what our so-called higher thinking can’t or won’t see, our older, more primitive intuition will." John Beckett
Pagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
*writes your name in my little black book.
Satan is my spirit animal
Crowley was well, human. I don't think anyone here with any perspective on god and magic or well anything can say that they are perfect. I think it is the same with Crowley. He was a man who was largely a product of his time. He has a number of insightful things to say though, and his opinions probably should not be totally dismissed out of hand. but keep in mind that things which were accepted as historical fact back then, are considered entirely bunk now, so many of these things will color both our opinions and his...
http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/
But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
~Jim Butcher
There is power in both disciplined asceticism and in unabashed hedonism, and Crowley had no fear of either. People seem to focus on the hype and completely overlook both his poetry and his sense of humor. The man could write beautifully, but everything he wrote was done with a sly wink, a nudge of the ribs, and a raised eyebrow. And he's influenced so much - from the little Wiccan Rede to the Charge of the Goddess.
Of course, he also wrote a very long poem dedicated to a woman having sex with a dog...
The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.
surely a woman having sex with a dog is against the Order of Nature?
Wiccan Rede? - how can we ascribe that to Crowley - not exactly rocket science, and I'm sure even the Cavemen had similar sayings
still, I've a few more articles of his to read.
Wicca is a young religion. The published Wiccan Rede, by Doreen Valiente, was first seen in the early 1960s. Aleister Crowley's Book of the Law was published sometime around 1900. Valiente sort of stapled the 'harm none' rider onto Crowley's 'Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law'. But, Crowley had the influences of people like Israel Regardie, S. L. Mathers, W. Somerset Maugham, W. B. Yeats... so he probably didn't get all of his ideas from thin air, either.
The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.
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