Magic: Self Suggestion?

[egregor]

A theory of mine. I'm curious as to whether or not those who actively practice with any systems would agree with, acknowledge the possibility of, or admit to contemplating the possibility of most "magic" being sell-hypnosis. A good example of this would be a charm used for say, obtaining a lover, or getting a job promotion. Most of them involve gathering specific supplies, handcrafting an object following a particular process, and then either carry it around with them or keep it in a place where they would see it often- magic? Is it not equally (if not more so) possible that the charm holds no magical or spiritual properties whatsoever, and just serves to keep your goal in the forefront of your mind so that you focus on the goal, which will increase your chances of success. Of course, there are other systems which can't be explained by this (accurate divination for example, although it could be explained with an over-developed sense of intuition), but it seems plausible too me...

I'd like some feedback, please. Also, if you practice and hold the belief that it is spiritual and not psychological, then you have my apologies if I have offended, I can assure you that was not my intention. I am merely positing something that seems plausible from my subjective point of view, nothing else.

[Aeran]

Re: Magic: Self Suggestion?

It's certainly a major factor, especially imo in certain forms of magic (sigils in particular, or like you said, love spells), and a lot of traditions involve similar practices in their techniques and developmental methods. That said, I don't think it's the whole of the thing, I've had too many experiences which can't be adequately explained by the neuropsychological model of magic to feel comfortable espousing it. The real question for me is where do the psychological effects end and the preternatural ones begin? Will be ever be able to draw a clear line between the two?

[Maria de Luna]

Re: Magic: Self Suggestion?

I have thought about it before, and while it is entirely possible that part of a spell can certainly be self-suggestion, (I also believe that without the belief that a spell will work, it is far less likely to, but that is not universal.) I have actually thought about it for a while, and personally I am not really sure that I think that the answer is totally inportant, I beleiev it is more than suggestion, I have had too many crazy circumstances exist around the casting of a spell to think it is purely psychological, but I will not deny that the psychological benefits can be tremendous as well. In the end, I'm not sure I really want to know where the line is drawn, because I feel like that would lessen any benefits psychological or otherwise. Keep in mind that it is also quite possible that I am nutters, and my opinion could just be insane rantings of a lunatic...

[thalassa]

Re: Magic: Self Suggestion?

I think it is probable, but ultimately unimportant, that a great deal of magic is self-therapy in general, and the power of positive thinking specifically. With that being said, I don't think it is self-hypnosis, which is hypnosis that is self-induced and a pretty specific mental and physical state. Having been hypnotized (and having tried my hand at self-hypnosis, which I find more difficult), and as someone that does magic, they aren't the same. The most similar undertaking I can think of, in terms of sensation to hypnosis (and this is just personal observation, not a universal one) is probably astral travel.

[nbdy]

Re: Magic: Self Suggestion?

hmm. Just last night I read an anecdote about Niels Bohr that seems to fit this theme nicely: The story is that a visitor to Bohr's country cottage notice a horse shoe hanging on the wall and was very amused. He needled Bohr about it saying, essentially, "Surely you, of all people, don't believe such a thing will bring you luck?" To which Bohr replied, "Of course not, but I understand that it brings luck whether you believe or not."

[Sean R. R.]

Re: Magic: Self Suggestion?

I agree with Thalassa, it's unimportant. My personal belief is that magic acts in three domains: Oneself (empowerement of one's will, or self-suggestion), the Universe (influences the world around you, causing "coincidences" that are favorable to your goal), and people around you.

I hope my belief brings some more insight into the question.

[Jera]

Re: Magic: Self Suggestion?

A theory of mine. I'm curious as to whether or not those who actively practice with any systems would agree with, acknowledge the possibility of, or admit to contemplating the possibility of most "magic" being sell-hypnosis. A good example of this would be a charm used for say, obtaining a lover, or getting a job promotion. Most of them involve gathering specific supplies, handcrafting an object following a particular process, and then either carry it around with them or keep it in a place where they would see it often- magic? Is it not equally (if not more so) possible that the charm holds no magical or spiritual properties whatsoever, and just serves to keep your goal in the forefront of your mind so that you focus on the goal, which will increase your chances of success. Of course, there are other systems which can't be explained by this (accurate divination for example, although it could be explained with an over-developed sense of intuition), but it seems plausible too me...

You pretty much summed up how I believe magic works :-p I was never able to articulate it so well myself though...I think there is a spiritual factor to it as well, but the depth of that spiritual connection depends on the person casting the spell. You could work a spell just as a "non-magical person" (do I dare use the word Muggle? XD) would use a daily mantra, inspirational message or piece of jewellery to remind them of their goals and aspirations., it is largely the same concept for pagans working magic just we work it within a spiritual or intuitive framework.