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    #1

    Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

    Just what it says -

    Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

    Explain why or why not.

    The NRA is against it, the media tells me that most citizens support it. Everybody is sure that this is a big NO BRAINER...

    However...

    Canada tried it in 1995, estimated it would cost $2 million. By 1998 it had run up a bill of $600 million, and the program was finally trashed, with all records destroyed, in 2011 after being declared entirely useless.

    I'm really curious as to what anybody thinks it will do for us in this country...

    I think we should try to do something useful with $600 million...
    Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

    Well.Yes and no, I guess ( like most things in life). I'm guessing that this is to control the sales of guns to lessen gun-related violence?
    I don't have any numbers, but if it's decided to register every gun sold starting at a set date, there will be a million guns already bought that won't be registered. Even if they call in for a registration of guns that are already sold, honest people will come, dishonest people won't. So there will be a black market of unregistered guns going around. If the US wants to cut down on gun violence, what they need is control. Because let's face it, whatever some people may say, you don't have to be able to buy an assault rifle. I am aware that my opinion makes a caricature of gun-toting rednecks. However; the fact is that people, that is normal people like you and me, do seem to have access to military-grade weaponry. I am sorry, but having an automatic rifle at home does not serve any purpose. You don't hunt with those, you don't bring them back from your guns-enthusiast club. Those are tools made for killing people​ and nothing else.

    Sorry about the rant, I'm tipsy. Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that the US government can register whatever they want, it won't change much before 10-20 years. If they want to change anything (still talking about reducing gun-related violence, here), they'll have to stop selling guns.
    "The idea is to be whispering, and not to gain the attention from the flock, but to get attention from the individuals. That's why I relate it to whispering. It's not something you can put on a big scale; you can't get sheep to attend to it. You need to have people who can stand for themselves. It is important to have a lot of space for yourself to be able to grow strong branches, which can stand in the most extreme surroundings."

    Gaahl

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      #3
      Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

      Individual weapons? No.

      Individuals that choose to (and are eligible to) own fire arms? Yes.


      Its pretty much what I had to do in IL, and I prefer it to the much more lax laws here in VA.
      Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
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        #4
        Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

        IMO, hell F'n no. It's bad enough that I have a week long wait to get a "permit to purchase", while they do a background check on me, supposedly, but I'd have to go register every gun in the house? No. Not just no. Hell no.

        The gov't can know I own them, fine. The police know. But unless one or all of them are stolen, they have no reason to know each and every firearm I own. Just that I own them legally and store them legally. And that's even pushing it, as far as I'm concerned.




        "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

        "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

        "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

        "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


        Comment

          #5
          Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

          I'd like to see the government find answers to problems that don't require extensive recordkeeping on the lives of the citizenry. Until such time as it's proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they absolutely need this type of data, my default answer is no.
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


          Comment

            #6
            Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

            My biggest concern with these types of movements is that any 'registration' by local or federal government in the US is public record (unless it somehow falls under HIPAA). Much like that newspaper in New York, if someone was looking to target gun owners for harassment or theft, hey, whaddaya know, they've got access to names and addresses in their immediate locality.

            So I'm voting no. If people want to volunteer their information, that's up to them.
            The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

            Comment

              #7
              Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
              Individual weapons? No.

              Individuals that choose to (and are eligible to) own fire arms? Yes.


              Its pretty much what I had to do in IL, and I prefer it to the much more lax laws here in VA.
              I agree with this one to an extent. I think that the records should be kept private. If you want a database of people who have been registered to own guns, and have pre-preformed background checks so they can buy a gun at any time, that seems OK. But I don't want to be able to do a google search and find the names of every gun owner on my block. That sounds problematic. Also, who exactly is going to register all these bloody guns. I am pretty good with useless and redundant paperwork, but I don't want to do this. Think of the extra people they are going to need to do this...


              I suppose it could help the job market,

              Looking for useless people to do useless paperwork


              Sounds like an effective hiring scheme to me...
              http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

              But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
              ~Jim Butcher

              Comment

                #8
                Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

                I'm not concerned that the government keeps records on me. The reason is this - data is only useful if you know what data you need, and can readily lay your hands on it. If you ever want to hide data, don't put it under a rock. Too obvious.

                Toss it in a bucket with a lot of other data, and nobody will ever find it...

                The fear that that government will use gun registration data to engage in wholesale confiscation of firearms is absurd - to be successful, the government would have to engage in a massive internal invasion of this country, and it would have to happen over night... Otherwise, confiscating weapons in, say, Florida, would alert every gun owner in the other 49 states, plus territories, that the long worried about revolution is under way.

                In short, an attempt to at the wholesale confiscation of weapons would cause any U.S. government to try it to instantly fall.

                My big problem with registration is:

                A. I can not name any problem which is solved, or even significantly reduced, through registration.
                B. It is a fantasy solution which will not work, will cost a fortune, and does nothing more than make people "feel" as if they have taken some kind of meaningful steps, while leaving the problem completely unaffected.

                For once, I'm with the NRA...
                Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

                  The only thing I can even remotely see as being useful for every bloody gun to be registered, is tracing them back to original owners and points of sale, (PoS should actually be tracable through serial number, and manufacturer.) But it does not help to obtain info about illegally obtained arms, Which are what people commit crimes with, who is going to register a firearm with a government data base before shooting the guy in the convenience store with it? and considering how much money you just don't make robbing little stores like that, they probably are not obtaining the firearms to commit these crimes legally. I just don't see the use, other than a random way to employ a bunch of people for a little while, until someone notices how much money they are wasting...
                  http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

                  But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
                  ~Jim Butcher

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

                    Thefts, maybe. Back in the '80s, my family had a break-in that resulted in, among other things, several firearms being taken. With some sort of national registry, any time one of those guns turns up, they'd be able to return the stolen items back to their rightful owner...

                    Except, that job is *already* done by serial numbers and police reports. So, that means it would just be introducing a useless redundancy. And, to me, that sounds like our government, for sure.




                    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                    "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                    "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                    "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

                      One of the "suggested" ways in which registration would help "curb gun violence" is that, if a stolen gun is used in a crime, it can be traced back to the original purchaser... who is then "responsible" for the use of that gun in that crime, which he or she actually had nothing to do with. You know, in the way that somebody who has a camera stolen by a pedophile is responsible for all the images the pedophile photographs...

                      Oh wait... that would be retarded...



                      Chain, I'll tell you -

                      Redundancy may well be a hallmark of our government, but it's not the fault of the government. The government does what the people tell them to... unfortunately, a lot of idiots have very loud voices.
                      Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

                        Originally posted by B. de Corbin View Post
                        Redundancy may well be a hallmark of our government, but it's not the fault of the government. The government does what the people tell them to... unfortunately, a lot of idiots have very loud voices.
                        What he said...
                        http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

                        But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
                        ~Jim Butcher

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

                          I shouldn't bring this up because the general consensus here is that registration of all firearms won't work. However, this little tid-bit of info is just too good to pass up...

                          In 2012, Germany implemented a plan to register all guns legally held by Germans into a national database. Along with this, the entire EU is being "obligated" to do the same in each country, by 2015.

                          Every article I've read on this begins with a paragraph indcating how jolly the German authorites are about this. They now have 5.5 million registered gun owners in Germany. This - they say - is the first time German authorities have been able to get an accurate count of weapons in civillian hands, which will allow them to do all kinds of good stuff, like find out how many people within a 300 mile radius own a gun capable of shooting 8mm ammo, should a crime ever be committed by somebody armed with a Mauser. That would probably give police a couple of thousand suspects.

                          However, when I check gunpolicy.org, the major international anti-gun group, I find that, prior to this registration, there were an estimated 25 milllion guns legally held by German civillians.

                          25 million - 5.5 million = 19.5 million "legally" owned firearms unaccounted for.

                          To me, this does not seem to indicate that registration gives a very accurate count. There was once a time when many people believed that Germans were big on precission and accuracy. I don't know if that was ever really true or not, but it is interesting to note that German authorities now seem to have completely lost the ability to do simple subtraction.

                          If this project follows the same trajectory as the Canadian experiment I described in the opening post, this little bit of law will cost many, many, many billions of dollars, and accomplish absolutely nothing. It has already accomplished nothing, but - oddly - is being hailed a a big step in the right direction by pea-brained (or pee) pundits...

                          I wonder how countries like Greece, already hard strapped for cash, feel about being obliged to take part in this vast continental boondoggle...?




                          Chain, you will be happy to know that stupidity is not a quality exclusively held by the U.S. government. Stupidity infects the entire EU as well.
                          Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

                            Wow. Now, that's a discrepancy.




                            "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                            "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                            "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                            "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: Should all handguns, rifles, shotguns, and pistols in U.S. be registered?

                              Originally posted by ChainLightning View Post
                              Wow. Now, that's a discrepancy.
                              Yeah - the bad part is that they should have expected it. The Canadian experiment gave the same result - I have stats around here somewhere, but, as I recall, after 5 years of mandatory registration, only about 16% of known long arms in Canada had been registered.

                              And everybody knows how polite, law abiding, and quick to run out and follow government instructions the Canadians and Germans are...

                              BWAHAHAHAHAHA

                              Let's try it in the U.S where everybody knows we are psychotics raised in a culture that glorifies gun violence, and where nobody trusts the government or the police, and we are afraid to walk the streets at night lest we be caught in one of the continous shoot-outs occuring on every street corner in every city.
                              Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

                              Comment

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