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    Animal sacrifices

    While myself a practitioner of Wicca, I have taken a strong interest in Greek and Roman gods and Hellenistic religion of the ancient world. Consequently, Hellenic and Roman reconstructionists are among the more interesting polytheistic revival religions in modern day.

    I have a question for those of you who know more about it, and/or practise it: since animal sacrifices were so integral to ancient Roman and Greek religious practice, do modern revivalists also perform animal sacrifices and burn parts of them as offerings? If so, are sacrifices done in situ with live animals? Or are the bones and spare bits of already-dead animals burnt before a meal?

    #2
    Re: Animal sacrifices

    While, I am no longer a believer in, nor practitioner of, any religion; I used to be a Heathen (Germanic Heathen/Asatruar).

    I am also a hunter. I also have experience slaughtering domestic animals for food.

    I have, ib the past, slaughtered an animal as a sacrifice, and made the kill of a hunt into a sacrifice.

    In both occasions, I gave the blood, and the choice cut of the kill as a sacrifice, and kept the rest of the meat, the leather, and anything else usable, for my own use.

    So, I have done both, made sacrificial blood offerings of animals that were alive (until the offering), and sacrificial offerings of things that were dead (prior to the offering).
    "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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      #3
      Re: Animal sacrifices

      For me it's pretty much the same description as ThorsSon - when I've gone hunting or fishing, or killed a domestic animal for food, I've dedicated its life to deities. I've made burnt offerings of meat I was cooking - which is not a good way to make friends with neighbors. Burning bone and fat is stinky.

      Generally, killing an animal for a sacrifice should be done by someone who knows how to kill and butcher animals. That way it's done safely and as humanely as possible. If you don't know how to do so, it's best to stick w/offerings via the grocery store or butcher shop.
      The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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        #4
        Re: Animal sacrifices

        Major urban area, here...the people I've run into who care about that mostly seem to put that intent into buying part of a creature ethically/organically raised by a small local farmer.

        That said, there's a rooster one street over who's untimely demise I fantasize about...
        Great Grandmother's Kitchen

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          #5
          Re: Animal sacrifices

          I've considered getting a fire pit in which to burn the bones of meat food, e.g. from a whole rotisserie chicken, along with some of the flesh and fat. As a separate practice outside of my formal religion, since Wicca is generally opposed to flesh sacrifices as offerings. I wouldn't conduct these rituals as a Wiccan, I'd conduct them as a personal rite; not necessarily Hellenic in the sense of that of a reconstructionist, but perhaps as Hellenistic, in that it relates to the culture and ways of the Greeks of Antiquity.
          I only really am considering this because the gods I worship in paramount are both of Greek description, and I would like to honour them in some small way similar to the way they were honoured in their time of primacy.

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            #6
            Re: Animal sacrifices

            It always seemed to me, that it would be best to offer things that I though that the deities that I was offering to might like. Who likes just bones and fat?

            "Sacrifice," entails something given up... Things that would've been thrown away, anyway, aren't exactly a "sacrifice."
            "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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              #7
              Re: Animal sacrifices

              Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
              It always seemed to me, that it would be best to offer things that I though that the deities that I was offering to might like. Who likes just bones and fat?
              It's because of a bad bargain Zeus made, one that was brokered by Prometheus. Prometheus was always trying to help mortals out, so when it came time to decide who would get what part of a sacrificed animal, he told the people making the sacrifice to take the bones & hides and drape them with the rich, succulent fat. The people then put the lean meat in another pile, which was considerably smaller. When Zeus came to pick His portion, he of course chose the larger pile with all the juicy fat.

              Another version of the story shows Zeus seeing through Prometheus' little ruse, and decreeing that all offerings to the Gods henceforth would be the bones and fat to show how little mortal offerings meant to the Gods in general.

              Either way, we got the good stuff.
              The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                #8
                Re: Animal sacrifices

                Originally posted by perzephone View Post
                It's because of a bad bargain Zeus made, one that was brokered by Prometheus. Prometheus was always trying to help mortals out, so when it came time to decide who would get what part of a sacrificed animal, he told the people making the sacrifice to take the bones & hides and drape them with the rich, succulent fat. The people then put the lean meat in another pile, which was considerably smaller. When Zeus came to pick His portion, he of course chose the larger pile with all the juicy fat.

                Another version of the story shows Zeus seeing through Prometheus' little ruse, and decreeing that all offerings to the Gods henceforth would be the bones and fat to show how little mortal offerings meant to the Gods in general.

                Either way, we got the good stuff.
                to quote every BBQ'er that ever lived: FAT IS FLAVOR!!!!

                (and have you never sucked marrow?!?!)

                no one wants JUST the bones ans fat... but I wouldn't argue that we got the "good stuff" by sacrificing them... but, then, honestly, "getting the good stuff," kinda runs counter to a "sacrifice."
                "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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                  #9
                  Re: Animal sacrifices

                  Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
                  to quote every BBQ'er that ever lived: FAT IS FLAVOR!!!!

                  (and have you never sucked marrow?!?!)

                  no one wants JUST the bones ans fat... but I wouldn't argue that we got the "good stuff" by sacrificing them... but, then, honestly, "getting the good stuff," kinda runs counter to a "sacrifice."
                  I think some of the difference lies in concept. There was, and still is, a difference between an 'offering' and a 'sacrifice'. When a standard offering is made, it's sort of routine, paying spiritual rent, that kind of thing. I incorporated burnt offerings into my routine.

                  Sacrifices are for more personal needs, or to say thank you, or give homage... those, even in ancient times, were more precious and special. That's when the town would select the most pristine animal from the herds, wreathe it in flowers, perfume its coat, gild its horns and hooves, lead it with a parade of cult priests and priestesses to the shrine - in other words, sanctify its life to the God in question and spill its blood for a favor that was greatly needed by all involved.
                  The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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                    #10
                    Re: Animal sacrifices

                    Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
                    It always seemed to me, that it would be best to offer things that I though that the deities that I was offering to might like.]
                    Well, yes, I've done other kinds of offerings before, i.e. libations and votive offerings. Even burnt offerings--just of herbs and effigies, not animal parts.

                    Who likes just bones and fat?
                    As Perze said, Greek mythology holds it to be part of a bargain between Prometheus and Zeus. It wasn't just the bones and fat; it was also the juicy innards, too. All of them were burned to send them to the Gods as an offering.
                    The reality is that, yeah, the Greeks offered the less-edible parts to the Gods because they wanted the meat to eat. In fact, the primary source of meat in the Greek diet was in ritual sacrifices. Which isn't to say that the other parts are inedible. Fat can be very flavourful, as can bone-marrow and some innards. Just that there were very practical reasons for dividing up the animal the way they did, and made a myth to explain it.

                    "Sacrifice," entails something given up... Things that would've been thrown away, anyway, aren't exactly a "sacrifice."
                    Well, it's a sacrifice in that the animal has its life sacrificed to the Gods after being sanctified. You're "giving up" a valuable animal, just as much as the animal is "giving up" its life.

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                      #11
                      Re: Animal sacrifices

                      (Me and my semantics.)

                      The beef I had last night (not a fact, I actually had broccoli) came from a cow that was sacrificed in order to feed me and maybe a couple dozen other people.

                      Truthfully, I attach no stigma to the words animal sacrifice. Instead, I look at the reasoning, the process or method, and the appropriateness. And from THOSE things, it's hard to describe my actual thought processes as to whether I approve or disapprove. What makes it so hard to describe is that, more often than not, I have a sort of apathetic distancing from any moral or ethical code, from which dis/approval usually stems.



                      A simple thing that I go and complicate the guts out of.




                      "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                      "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                      "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                      "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


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                        #12
                        Re: Animal sacrifices

                        In a number of cultures, "Animal sacrifice" means a communal meal in which men and Gods take part in eating the slaughtered animals. I think in this context, animal sacrifice is very appropriate.

                        In ancient times, people of most ethnic groups used to pray like the Mari El pagans do to this day. These people are so loyal to their gods that their belief...


                        See 12:00
                        If you want to be thought intelligent, just agree with everyone.

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                          #13
                          Re: Animal sacrifices

                          Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
                          Well, it's a sacrifice in that the animal has its life sacrificed to the Gods after being sanctified. You're "giving up" a valuable animal, just as much as the animal is "giving up" its life.
                          I will concede that fact, in the case where I have sacrificed an animal that I own. In hunting, or making sacrifice of store-bought meat; I disagree. Yes the animal died. But... that sacrifice was already made (the animal is already dead). I have made no sacrifice.
                          "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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                            #14
                            Re: Animal sacrifices

                            Originally posted by ThorsSon View Post
                            It always seemed to me, that it would be best to offer things that I though that the deities that I was offering to might like. Who likes just bones and fat?

                            "Sacrifice," entails something given up... Things that would've been thrown away, anyway, aren't exactly a "sacrifice."
                            To sacrifice literally means "to make sacred". What is given is made sacred by having given it to the gods, and the act of giving it to the gods is how we came to use it in the way you're thinking of - giving something up.

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                              #15
                              Re: Animal sacrifices

                              Originally posted by Raphaeline View Post
                              To sacrifice literally means "to make sacred". What is given is made sacred by having given it to the gods, and the act of giving it to the gods is how we came to use it in the way you're thinking of - giving something up.
                              Now that you mention that; it seems like it is something that I knew, once upon a time. But... I had forgotten.

                              After doing a little etymology research... turns out, you are 100% correct.

                              Stupid brain; dropping facts, and hanging on to the falsities.
                              "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

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