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Thread: Open borders?

  1. #1
    Sr. Member ghosthaunter's Avatar
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    Open borders?

    So, this started as an essay for english (>.> boring) but it indeed is an interesting question. What do you think about open or closed borders and all the kind of immigrants? Should they be closed so the government doesn't have any problems anymore with illegal immigrants? Become like the US and control everyone who enters the country? Or open our borders for asylum seekers and refugees? or make border controls?
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    Copper Member Dufonce's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    im speaking as a us citizen.. yes we have what they call border patrol. but it doesnt work. we have too many illegals and all they have to do is have a kid here (which medical is paid for by government for them), they suddenly get food stamps and welfare added to their free medical and can no longer be deported. while taxpayers pay to support them. if we opened our borders and made sure that everyone was registered and paying their taxes too. which means controlled open borders, it would be so much better. i have no problem with immigration, i do however have a problem paying taxes to support moochers.
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    Grey Warden Rowanwood's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    If semi-closed borders is full of people sneaking in, don't you think open borders are worse?

    It's not as if it's impossible to get here legally. Mind you, I do think we need to fix both ends of the system. Make legal immigration more reasonable BUT with more regulations (must get a job, speak English, etc) and also spend more time enforcing laws regarding illegal immigration.


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    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    I don't think just anyone should be allowed in. I mean, it's important to allow people asylum and of course it's important to get in skilled immigration (especially when you have a shortage of that skill in your country) but you want to make sure you're not getting anyone in with a criminal record, or that's going to be a drain on the system because they aren't able (or willing) to get a job at some point in the future. In a nutshell, people should be allowed in but there should be checks and balances.

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    Copper Member Dufonce's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    an illegal can crash a car and kill a family, they get charged with driving without a liscense and deported. legal they get vehicular manslaughter charges. right now you can come over from europe and pay a fee to become a us citizen... any third worlder that comes over has to go through a rough process that takes years to get through... or live here illegal and babied by the government because essentially illegals are given diplomatic immunity. make it easier and more will accept citizenship. maybe require time served in the military, during that time making sure they are literate and have required communication skills.
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    Nihilistic Goddess Medusa's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    I find America has two hands who are in complete denial of what the each other does. On one hand we want NO ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS here. On the other we USE Them constantly for work we don't want to do. If there were no jobs here (And I mean seriously no jobs) for illegal immigrants, would they still come here? It seems what America wants is the good old days of slaves. And well Hispanics...we don't do slave well.
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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    [quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=83.msg370#msg370 date=1286654189]
    I don't think just anyone should be allowed in. I mean, it's important to allow people asylum and of course it's important to get in skilled immigration (especially when you have a shortage of that skill in your country) but you want to make sure you're not getting anyone in with a criminal record, or that's going to be a drain on the system because they aren't able (or willing) to get a job at some point in the future. In a nutshell, people should be allowed in but there should be checks and balances.
    [/quote]

    I agree with this completely - governments have to have some control over borders, in order to maintain the physical and economic security of the country. So completely open borders are out.

    And so are completely closed borders. Anything which people want to do cannot be stopped by physical restraints - even draconian punishments won't work, they'll simply create a thriving and (potentially) violent underground (see drugs, prostitution, prohibition, anti-gambling, anti-fornication, anti-sodomy legislation for colorful examples of this not working. The violence of the underground community tends to rise in proportion to the violence taken by law enforcement to control it).

    That leaves a controlled system of some sort as the only really workable possibility.
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    Sr. Member ghosthaunter's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    [quote author=Rowanwood link=topic=83.msg367#msg367 date=1286653885]
    It's not as if it's impossible to get here legally. Mind you, I do think we need to fix both ends of the system. Make legal immigration more reasonable BUT with more regulations (must get a job, speak English, etc) and also spend more time enforcing laws regarding illegal immigration.
    [/quote]

    i do agree that immigrants should be able to speak the language they go to. it's should really be something they need to check. If they don't speak the language they can hardly find any work.
    Please, just call me Ghost

    I want to be like the moon. A lonely observator of earth, watching the people live, love and die

    Knowledge destroys enemies, too much knowledge makes enemies ~Ghost~

    It doesn't matter how you practice your magick. As long as the thought behind it is clear, it will work

  9. #9
    lady sings the blues DanieMarie's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    [quote author=B. de Corbin link=topic=83.msg405#msg405 date=1286657732]
    [quote author=DanieMarie link=topic=83.msg370#msg370 date=1286654189]
    I don't think just anyone should be allowed in. I mean, it's important to allow people asylum and of course it's important to get in skilled immigration (especially when you have a shortage of that skill in your country) but you want to make sure you're not getting anyone in with a criminal record, or that's going to be a drain on the system because they aren't able (or willing) to get a job at some point in the future. In a nutshell, people should be allowed in but there should be checks and balances.
    [/quote]

    I agree with this completely - governments have to have some control over borders, in order to maintain the physical and economic security of the country. So completely open borders are out.

    And so are completely closed borders. Anything which people want to do cannot be stopped by physical restraints - even draconian punishments won't work, they'll simply create a thriving and (potentially) violent underground (see drugs, prostitution, prohibition, anti-gambling, anti-fornication, anti-sodomy legislation for colorful examples of this not working. The violence of the underground community tends to rise in proportion to the violence taken by law enforcement to control it).

    That leaves a controlled system of some sort as the only really workable possibility.
    [/quote]

    Totally agreed on this part too.

    Also (just to the topic in general), I'm seeing a lot of talk right now about not allowing children of illegal immigrants born in the US to have citizenship. This is a TERRIBLE idea that will cause a lot of problems and crime. If they're born in the US, it's not their fault that their parents are illegal immigrants, and it will cause these kids a whole heap of issues if they can't fit into the "system" of the country in which they are born, which is likely the only "home" they've ever known (especially since illegal immigrants don't tend to go home a lot because it may be hard to get back in). In Europe, withholding citizenship to immigrant kids born here (which in the case of Germany, was done for a long time even IF your parents were legal) caused a TON of problems and a lot of the tensions we're seeing today are caused by the lack of integration. Not allowing citizenship to people born in that country is about as poor as an integration policy can get.

    Re: speaking the language....that really depends. In a LOT of Europe you can still easily get a job if you speak English (as a native language or second language, doesn't matter), whether or not English is an official language of that country. And honestly, not knocking any of these places, but who actually LEARNS something like Dutch or Swiss German or Czech or something unless they're living there (excepting the few cases of people with family from there or studied it in University as some sort of international program). And I know I'm going to hear "well you're probably talking about educated workers going for a specific job with an international company that operates in English", and yes, I am. But the problem is that when you make up these rules, you have to hold them up for EVERYONE. Take Canada for example. Canada makes ALL foreigners take an English (or French) test at their own expense before being granted a visa, and there was a well-publicized case of a woman from the UNITED STATES and her husband from ENGLAND (or maybe it was vice-versa) going there to be an ENGLISH professor at a major university having to jump through hoops to take this stupid test. The woman had a PhD in English and it was her native language! Seriously....If you're going to make up laws regarding language, I think there should be exceptions when you're from a country where that's the official language, or if you're speaking a language that may not be an "official" language of that country but is used often in companies and therefore you'd still be able to find a job (as is the case of Germany and English).

  10. #10
    Copper Member Dufonce's Avatar
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    Re: Open borders?

    english is a very widely used language in world trade. it also isnt a language based on culture like a lot of other languages. If they want to speak only spanish and come over here thats fine. but they have to know its going to limit how people interact with them and limit their ability to work.
    "Sometimes bad things happen, and theres nothing you can do about it, so why worry?" ~ Timon

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