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    #1

    comments & ideas about sub-forums

    Why not have a Slavic & Baltic sub-forum? It just seems it would be fair, not to mention others that could be there such as near Eastern and/or Semitic paganism.

    Also, most the religions/philosophies of the world are pagan, and while you have sub-forums for Western/European ones, you have no others, but you have ones for the non-pagan, i.e. Abrahamic religions. It seems a bit strange and actually disturbing.

    Sanatana Dharma ('Hinduism,') Jain Dharma, Buddha Dharma, Sikhi, Mazdayasna ('Zoroastrianism,') Taoism, Confucianism, Mohism, some later and more modern philosophy & occultism, as well as all the world's ethnic polytheism, etc., are all non-Abrahamic and so called pagan/heathen, yet there is a sub-forum for the religions that call these others pagan/heathen/'infidel' as an insult and consider them to be the damned and unworthy, except worthy, in every case, historically, of being killed. I just thought it should be pointed out... if you wanted half-pagans to be able to discuss things there among themselves and with non-pagans, perhaps it is reasonable, but is it reasonable before you have made sub-forums for much but Western/European paganism? I thought there would be more to discuss with the world's other pagans.

    Maybe sub-forums are only created if there seems to be an interest. I might be interested in some new ones, but I plan to stay out of the Abrahamic sub-forum.
    Tags: None
    #2
    Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

    I might be wrong, but I think you are right about sub-forums being created out of need. There would be little point in creating lots of sub-forums that were never used.

    I never notice what section a post is in fwiw, but then I tend to read posts via the 'new post' option rather than by sub-forum.
    http://thefeministpagan.blogspot.co.uk/

    Comment

      #3
      Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

      Pretty sure they are created when they're asked for.

      The abrahamic one is there, I suspect, because as one of the largest and most aggressive religions in the world, there will be talk about them. It's kind of inevitable. Better to give it its own corner than have it infiltrate and (in my personal, obviously negative opinion, lol) pollute the others.

      So far, the only christian I've seen here (I've not been here long) was very respectful. My experience with christians and pagan/heathen religions, however, has been staggeringly opposite.

      The other reason for it having its own forum is that many of us either came from there, or are working out way free still from experiences there. Having a place to discuss it can help you to let go of some of that without dragging that conflict into other areas of the forum.

      Many have not had negative experiences with the abrahamic religions, and that's great! But a lot have had, and there can be resentment left over from it, which can spill out intentionally or otherwise. Best to give it a home rather than try endlessly to fight it out of the other areas.

      Comment

        #4
        Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

        Originally posted by SPhoenix View Post
        Pretty sure they are created when they're asked for.
        Ok, then I am requesting a Slavic, or Slavic & Baltic (if this would be named in the same style of 'Greek & Roman') one. I know some about Slavic, but not so much about Baltic, paganism, but I think they may be closely related, and if they are, it would be best to have both... if they are not closely related, maybe someone will want a Baltic forum. As I am more focused on rationalist idealist philosophy than religion, I am not sure how much I would actually post... I would just like it to be there even if I might post a year from now. Hopefully someone will. I would certainly mention it to any Slavic pagans I know. There is not much I have to say about Slavic paganism, but there is a lot more I want to learn about it, even though I know the basics and have read a lot of relevant material, as I did with most Indo-European paganism.

        The abrahamic one is there, I suspect, because as one of the largest and most aggressive religions in the world, there will be talk about them. It's kind of inevitable. Better to give it its own corner than have it infiltrate and (in my personal, obviously negative opinion, lol) pollute the others.
        I disagree with that. The world is in a war of ideas with almost 50% being pagan and to some extent rational, and 50% Abrahamic and believing in suffering for unbelievers (otherwise the believers are heretical and not so Abrahamic.) Though elements of the later sects have become more moderate, if there is some large economic or environmental problem, that could make them go 'apocalyptic.' On Hindu Dharma Forums, they had an Abrahamic section for years and decided to close it. On places like the world's biggest Buddhist chat room, if you start talking about other religions, especially preaching, the admins give you three warnings total for that or any extreme rudeness, etc., and if you keep it up, you are banned. So, the way the indigenous pagan religions that were not completely wiped out deal with it, is they stick to the discussion of their own philosophies and somewhat of any syncretized with it, and if people start causing problems, they are dealt with. Having a place for them to cause problems will in the end only make them more aggressive.

        The other reason for it having its own forum is that many of us either came from there, or are working out way free still from experiences there. Having a place to discuss it can help you to let go of some of that without dragging that conflict into other areas of the forum.
        Well, that reason is completely logical. If I was younger and had started using this before some of the oldest forms of communication on the 'net, I might want a place to discuss Abrahamism as I did elsewhere before even giving up the esoteric Christianity I was raised with (with discussion of far Eastern religion/philosophy, Sufism, etc.)

        - - - Updated - - -

        I guess this should have been posted in the section where you comment & ask the admins. I had not seen that. I suppose they can move it, or I will make the new sub-forum suggestion there.

        Comment

          #5
          Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

          moved to site information, past that new subforum decisions are above my paygrade.
          life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

          Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

          "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

          John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

          "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

          Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


          Comment

            #6
            Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

            Originally posted by demon View Post
            The world is in a war of ideas with almost 50% being pagan and to some extent rational, and 50% Abrahamic and believing in suffering for unbelievers (otherwise the believers are heretical and not so Abrahamic.) Though elements of the later sects have become more moderate, if there is some large economic or environmental problem, that could make them go 'apocalyptic.' On Hindu Dharma Forums, they had an Abrahamic section for years and decided to close it. On places like the world's biggest Buddhist chat room, if you start talking about other religions, especially preaching, the admins give you three warnings total for that or any extreme rudeness, etc., and if you keep it up, you are banned. So, the way the indigenous pagan religions that were not completely wiped out deal with it, is they stick to the discussion of their own philosophies and somewhat of any syncretized with it, and if people start causing problems, they are dealt with. Having a place for them to cause problems will in the end only make them more aggressive.
            Well, that reason is completely logical. If I was younger and had started using this before some of the oldest forms of communication on the 'net, I might want a place to discuss Abrahamism as I did elsewhere before even giving up the esoteric Christianity I was raised with (with discussion of far Eastern religion/philosophy, Sufism, etc.)
            Actually the Abrahamic subforum is just as active, and at times moreso than many of the other sub-forums. I don't see a good reason to be offended that there is an abrahamic subforum and not one you have specifically been looking for, if it was not requested or asked for it likely just was never added. There are plenty of groups who do not have their own whole proper sub-forum, if it hasn't come up, it simply hasn't come up. There are a number of people here who identify as Pagan and eigther discuss or even still practice parts of abrahamic faiths. I don't think anything is worth discrediting completely just because you don't like some of the doctrine. Frankly it also is not really fair to generalise a whole group of ANY faith as the same thing, especially something that takes up such a huge bloody portion of the population.
            I also disagree with the assessment that half the world believes in suffering for "unbelievers" and the other half is rational. I have met my fair share of lovely abrahamic people and irrational pagans. It is a bad generalisation to make and in a bit of poor taste as one of your very earliest posts.

            Originally posted by demon View Post
            Ok, then I am requesting a Slavic, or Slavic & Baltic (if this would be named in the same style of 'Greek & Roman') one. I know some about Slavic, but not so much about Baltic, paganism, but I think they may be closely related, and if they are, it would be best to have both... if they are not closely related, maybe someone will want a Baltic forum. As I am more focused on rationalist idealist philosophy than religion, I am not sure how much I would actually post... I would just like it to be there even if I might post a year from now. Hopefully someone will. I would certainly mention it to any Slavic pagans I know. There is not much I have to say about Slavic paganism, but there is a lot more I want to learn about it, even though I know the basics and have read a lot of relevant material, as I did with most Indo-European paganism.
            I do think we have a few slavic pagans floating about last I checked, I guess we just have not had anyone ask for a whole sub-forum yet. Dunno if any of the admin are on just now, I'm sure someone will have a look at it for you!
            http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

            But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
            ~Jim Butcher

            Comment

              #7
              Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

              I would love to see an Eastern Religion subforum as mentioned above; especially if it includes Shintoism.


              Comment

                #8
                Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

                Originally posted by demon View Post
                Ok, then I am requesting a Slavic, or Slavic & Baltic (if this would be named in the same style of 'Greek & Roman') one. I know some about Slavic, but not so much about Baltic, paganism, but I think they may be closely related, and if they are, it would be best to have both... if they are not closely related, maybe someone will want a Baltic forum. As I am more focused on rationalist idealist philosophy than religion, I am not sure how much I would actually post... I would just like it to be there even if I might post a year from now. Hopefully someone will. I would certainly mention it to any Slavic pagans I know. There is not much I have to say about Slavic paganism, but there is a lot more I want to learn about it, even though I know the basics and have read a lot of relevant material, as I did with most Indo-European paganism.

                "Slavic" paganism encompasses the entirety of the Slavic culture. So you're looking at Russia, Poland, Serbia, Bolivia, Macedonia, Slovenia, Slovakia, and about half a dozen others-and that's if you're not including the earlier nations like Yugoslavia or Carantania.

                The Baltic region is a little tricky. The credence of their being "Slavic" changes between individuals and individual scholars. I lump them into Slavic because they're in the region and a lot of the culture is similar, but their background is different than that of Russia or Poland. So if you're going to create a sub-forum for Slavic paths, there needs to be differentiation within that sub-forum- there are different pantheons, different supernatural creatures, different heroes, different dragons, different songs, different traditions, holidays, perspectives and folklore for each region. There are similarities, but when you dig into the details...

                I just started a blog focusing on my own path of the Slovene lore, but Rodnovery is different and there are a lot of deities that are similar in some ways but very different when you get into the characteristics and stories.

                I know there are a few of us Slavic-followers floating around, but there isn't the kind of interaction that I've seen warrant a full sub-forum yet. Even if there was one created, I'm not sure I'd even want to put my spirituality up for debate and questioning beyond the shallow layers. However, if you're interested in resources, I could hook you up with that. There's not a lot out in English, but there's some and I'm working on translating some.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

                  Since I'm not on the road or walking around as part of a vacation any more, I may as well field the subject of the Abrahamic sub-forum.

                  It's there because there has been enough discussion regarding abrahamic faiths by either

                  1) members of abrahamic faiths that have joined this board or
                  2) other members of the board with interest in a topic relevant to the abrahamic faiths

                  to justify grouping them in their own subforum. If enough discussion directly connected to another sect to justify grouping all threads to that one sect in one location should occur than odds are that a new subforum will appear. As it stands, Zoroastrianism has roughly 4 threads to its name since October 2010 that I can think of and maybe one of them has more than 20 posts. I'm not betting on them getting a subforum. Several other examples on your list would have even less of a population in a hypothetical subforum than Zoroastrianism.

                  On Hindu Dharma Forums, they had an Abrahamic section for years and decided to close it. On places like the world's biggest Buddhist chat room, if you start talking about other religions, especially preaching, the admins give you three warnings total for that or any extreme rudeness, etc., and if you keep it up, you are banned. So, the way the indigenous pagan religions that were not completely wiped out deal with it, is they stick to the discussion of their own philosophies and somewhat of any syncretized with it, and if people start causing problems, they are dealt with. Having a place for them to cause problems will in the end only make them more aggressive.
                  PaganForum is none of the above locations and has no desire at this time to change that. We welcome members of all faiths provided that they are willing and able to meet our minimal requirements for civility. We also ban members of all faiths should they fail to meet our minimal requirements of civility. That system has worked pretty well for a number of years now.
                  life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                  Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                  "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                  John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                  "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                  Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                  Comment

                    #10
                    Re: comments & ideas about sub-forums

                    Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                    moved to site information, past that new subforum decisions are above my paygrade.

                    As the board organizer--the person that set up the boards and subforums...

                    There hasn't historically been the need for it. Same with Eastern religions...although, I would create one of those before anything else, because that is a more common subset of discussions that go on--I'll actually put that one up for discussion in the staff section. When I say historically, I'm not referring to the content on this site, now, but a lot of the lost content from the this forum's predecessor---Pagan Forum has been around for about 15 years or something like that. Sure, there are a number of people that practice Slavic or Baltic religions and Middle Eastern polytheisms...but they haven't historically been enough people with enough discussions to warrant their own section. Some of the subsections are still pretty bare in the meantime, but overall population wise, there are more Pagans that identify with those traditions that otherwise.

                    Meanwhile, Abrahamic faiths will continue to have their own sub-forum. We generally have a handful of followers of various Abrahamic faiths...one of our moderators is Muslim, another of our former moderators was Mormon when she first joined the forum, and the previous owner of the board was an atheist. <moderator note>While most of our members are Pagan, and most of our religious discussions are Pagan in nature, we are a multi-faith community that welcomes people of all religions or none for any respectful and open-minded discussion. Period. If this is something that anyone has a problem with and can't keep it respectful...they won't last very long. </moderator note>
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                    sigpic

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Re: comments &amp;amp; ideas about sub-forums

                      Originally posted by Maria de Luna View Post
                      I don't see a good reason to be offended that there is an abrahamic subforum and not one you have specifically been looking for [....] [...] There are a number of people here who identify as Pagan and [...] still practice parts of abrahamic faiths.
                      Perhaps you misinterpreted. Also, I disagree with usage of the terms that way.

                      I also disagree with the assessment that half the world believes in suffering for "unbelievers" and the other half is rational. I have met my fair share of lovely abrahamic people and irrational pagans. It is a bad generalisation to make and in a bit of poor taste as one of your very earliest posts.
                      So it is 'lovely' to believe Abraham was sane? If anyone today did what he did, they would be put in prison and/or a mental hospital for years. Abrahamic books clearly state unbelievers will undergo eternal suffering, and if 'believers' disagree about that or its 'morality,' they are among a small percentage that are heretics and also believed to be damned, according to fundamentalists and even most majority doctrine (which more followers of nowadays certainly may just not have studied what they claim to believe.) Ok; it is true there are many irrational pagans, i.e. with equally superstitious beliefs (the very idea of belief is superstitious)... most of the world is to some extent irrational (even people such as me with personality types that normally make someone rationalist.) It is bad taste to say something is bad taste, but not what it is and why....

                      I don't think anything is worth discrediting completely just because you don't like some of the doctrine.
                      'Doctrine' has negative connotations, and in this case it is not just 'dislike,' but total opposition in the name of basic human rights. Also, 'Cherry picking, suppressing evidence, or the fallacy of incomplete evidence is the act of pointing to individual cases or data that seem to confirm a particular position, while ignoring a significant portion of related cases or data that may contradict that position. It is a kind of fallacy of selective attention, the most common example of which is the confirmation bias. Cherry picking may be committed unintentionally[1]'--Wikipedia.

                      Frankly it also is not really fair to generalise a whole group of ANY faith as the same thing, especially something that takes up such a huge bloody portion of the population.
                      It is true some 'believers'/heretics have contradictory, unclear, confused views such as the idea Abraham was good to be willing to do human sacrifice, but that it is no longer a good idea--maybe unless 'God' contacts the believer (since a few still claim to be prophets, so the few of the type that start 'cults' could arguably do anything that ever happened in their books. A Hindu-focused Bahai of India told me some Hindus still do human sacrifice, so it is not impossible others would.) However... 'In argumentation theory, an argumentum ad populum (Latin for "appeal to the people") is a fallacious argument that concludes a proposition to be true because many or most people believe it. In other words, the basic idea of the argument is: "If many believe so, it is so." This type of argument is known by several names,[1] including appeal to the masses, appeal to belief, appeal to the majority, appeal to democracy, argument by consensus, consensus fallacy, authority of the many, and bandwagon fallacy, and in Latin as argumentum ad numerum ("appeal to the number"), and consensus gentium ("agreement of the clans"). It is also the basis of a number of social phenomena, including communal reinforcement and the bandwagon effect. The Chinese proverb "three men make a tiger" concerns the same idea'--Wikipedia.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Re: comments &amp; ideas about sub-forums


                        Right then, this thread seems to have a split personality disorder and I don't have the patience for it. It can be used to discuss opening new subforums and stay in site information or it can be used to debate about the Abrahamic Faiths and I'll throw it into debate and/or lock it depending on how the discussion goes. It is not going to be both. I leave the OP the option of which one he would prefer. If a decision is not made and this discussion attempts to retain it's split personality disorder within this section then I will seal the damn thing and pursue appropriate action against any member that chooses to air their grievances against religions that are explicitly welcomed on this forum outside of the debate section. This is the one and only warning I'm in the mood to provide tonight.
                        life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                        Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                        "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                        John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                        "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                        Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                        Comment

                          #13
                          Re: comments &amp; ideas about sub-forums

                          Originally posted by MaskedOne View Post
                          Right then, this thread seems to have a split personality disorder and I don't have the patience for it. It can be used to discuss opening new subforums and stay in site information or it can be used to debate about the Abrahamic Faiths and I'll throw it into debate and/or lock it depending on how the discussion goes. [...]
                          I would like to take any dialectic/debate to a new thread... if admins feel debate started (it may not have,) I do not object to moving the thread, though it would be better if I could copy my previous post elsewhere or have it moved, then deleted from this thread: no point in a debate starting off-topic. I kind of wanted to reply in a new thread but would have posted its link, which I possibly cannot do yet, but I had not planned to reply beyond admitting my mistakes and illustrating fallacies--not writing many pages of new arguments, which I would not do in a help area. Actually, I read & write a lot; I have a huge screen, and what looked like a 1/2 KB reply was 3 KB (counting parts I replied to.) Apologies to the admins if I made them read more here than they usually would... I have written 30 KB before when I just felt like it, but as I said, I would never do that in a help area (except in the unlikely case of its relevance.)

                          No matter what offends me, I did not state an off-topic sub-forum being here offended me, nor that it should not be here any more than it should be: someone explained a good reason, which I agreed with. For years I have been a strict pagan who has not used places with off-topic discussion much, so my original remark reflected that.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Re: comments &amp; ideas about sub-forums

                            Originally posted by demon View Post
                            Maybe sub-forums are only created if there seems to be an interest. I might be interested in some new ones, but I plan to stay out of the Abrahamic sub-forum.

                            It takes more than just an interest in some subsect before a whole new section would even be considered. And, although thalassa is, or at least has been our go-to admin (regardless of whether she is sporting a Mod hat or not) new section suggestions are reviewed and discuss among the owners of the site.

                            For just some of the 'nitty gritty', that we consider, is the amount of discussion floating around. If it's contained in just a thread or three there is very little likelihood of devoting a new section to the subject. If, as we've witnessed in this very thread, a natural tendency to discuss a system of beliefs, all over the boards, we'll find some shady spot to place it all.

                            For someone that doesn't want to frequent the Abrahamic boards, by the way, you've spent an inordinate amount of time discussing those world views. Meaning, even though you won't go into the section, threads that belong there would be moved there. Just sayin'.




                            "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

                            "Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth." - Marcus Aurelius

                            "The very ink with which history is written is merely fluid prejudice." - Mark Twain

                            "The only gossip I'm interested in is things from the Weekly World News - 'Woman's bra bursts, 11 injured'. That kind of thing." - Johnny Depp


                            Comment

                              #15
                              Re: comments &amp; ideas about sub-forums

                              Originally posted by demon View Post
                              I would like to take any dialectic/debate to a new thread... if admins feel debate started (it may not have,) I do not object to moving the thread, though it would be better if I could copy my previous post elsewhere or have it moved, then deleted from this thread: no point in a debate starting off-topic. I kind of wanted to reply in a new thread but would have posted its link, which I possibly cannot do yet, but I had not planned to reply beyond admitting my mistakes and illustrating fallacies--not writing many pages of new arguments, which I would not do in a help area. Actually, I read & write a lot; I have a huge screen, and what looked like a 1/2 KB reply was 3 KB (counting parts I replied to.) Apologies to the admins if I made them read more here than they usually would... I have written 30 KB before when I just felt like it, but as I said, I would never do that in a help area (except in the unlikely case of its relevance.)

                              No matter what offends me, I did not state an off-topic sub-forum being here offended me, nor that it should not be here any more than it should be: someone explained a good reason, which I agreed with. For years I have been a strict pagan who has not used places with off-topic discussion much, so my original remark reflected that.
                              Dicing this thread up won't leave a whole lot of thread. With that said, the current preponderance is at least somewhat tied to subforums so I'm gonna leave this here. Further discussion of Abrahamic religions should go to debates or Abrahamic religions depending on the tone of thread.
                              life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

                              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

                              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

                              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

                              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

                              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


                              Comment

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