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    #31
    Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

    Originally posted by SPhoenix View Post
    So while you may choose to attempt to force internet or random street-side discussions to accept formal philosophical terms and to be, will they or nil they, ontological arguments... I wish you great luck with that, but I don't foresee you having much luck with it.
    This is completely unrelated, but I just learned where the phrase "willy nilly" comes from. Thanks!


    Mostly art.

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      #32
      Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

      Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
      This is completely unrelated, but I just learned where the phrase "willy nilly" comes from. Thanks!
      I love experiences like that! I think my most memorable was when I found out about "a pig in a poke". Who knew how awful that saying really is! hnoes:

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        #33
        Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

        Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
        or nature worshipper (if I'm talking to hippies. saying this to normal people embarasses me, though I think it is the truest phrase)
        Spiritual bioregionalism...

        I'm tellin you, its the future of nature worshipping.

        <------see?
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
        sigpic

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          #34
          Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

          Originally posted by SPhoenix View Post
          I'm not being disrespectful, but when people ask, "What's your religion", 90% of the time they are NOT engaged in any sort of formal philosophical ontological arguments. The term "agnostic" in standard conversation relates to a person who is not sure.
          That's just it, agnosticism isn't a religion. It is an ontological position, it is always an ontological position. In other words it pertains to existence, in all cases where you are using the term literally. Formally it is as I said, it is used informally to refer to being agnostic (As an adjective, not a noun!) towards the existence of gods.

          In other words, regardless of formality you are only an agnostic if you believe in agnosticism which is specifically the formal ontological belief that the existence of gods is unknown or unknowable. Otherwise you are only describing your beliefs as being like agnosticism, in other words the correct phrasing would be: "Socrates' views toward immortality were agnostic." This use is figurative.

          When people ask what your religion is, answer them. If you have a religion that can be summed up in a few words then speak those words, otherwise say it would take too long. If you have no religion at all, then say so. The existence of gods has not entered the discussion, you could certainly state that your religion is agnostic... but that doesn't answer the question or provide any useful information.

          When the existence of gods has entered the discussion, then guess what! You are actually having a philosophical argument, in which a formal ontological term would be useful.

          I have no problem with anyone describing their beliefs as agnostic, that does not make them an agnostic though.
          Trust is knowing someone or something well enough to have a good idea of their motivations and character, for good or for ill. People often say trust when they mean faith.

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            #35
            Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

            V...I'm not sure if you were following HP when these were written (I just stumbled across them myself), but I thought you might find them interesting...

            As I poured a libation of barley tea, read aloud the Hymn to Demeter, and called out to the Two Goddesses, Demeter and Persephone, a dull frustration was in the air. The words rang empty. Then, as …

            As in the animation above, multiple currents move in the Pagan community, often in seemingly opposite directions. – by B. T. Newberg Tanya Lurhmann, in her anthropological study Persuasions o…


            Also, I thought you might find Allison Leigh Lilly interesting, if you haven't discovered her site yet: http://alisonleighlilly.com/blog/
            ...one of my fave of her more recent posts http://alisonleighlilly.com/blog/201...ve-and-nature/
            Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
            sigpic

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              #36
              Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

              Originally posted by thalassa View Post
              V...I'm not sure if you were following HP when these were written (I just stumbled across them myself), but I thought you might find them interesting...

              As I poured a libation of barley tea, read aloud the Hymn to Demeter, and called out to the Two Goddesses, Demeter and Persephone, a dull frustration was in the air. The words rang empty. Then, as …

              As in the animation above, multiple currents move in the Pagan community, often in seemingly opposite directions. – by B. T. Newberg Tanya Lurhmann, in her anthropological study Persuasions o…


              Also, I thought you might find Allison Leigh Lilly interesting, if you haven't discovered her site yet: http://alisonleighlilly.com/blog/
              ...one of my fave of her more recent posts http://alisonleighlilly.com/blog/201...ve-and-nature/
              Thanks, thal! I've read the most recent Allison post (we share a middle name, sigh) ...but the others are all new. I'll take a look


              Mostly art.

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                #37
                Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                Originally posted by volcaniclastic View Post
                There's a post on r/occult (reddit) that asks about what kind of paths people follow. I answered with 'atheist pagan' and somebody said something that kinda bothered me.

                Do you equate being an atheist pagan (or secular humanist, or naturalist pagan, or humanist pagan) to be 'just a witch'? I was a little offended by the remark, which suggested it was just easier to call myself a witch, but I disagree.
                To start, calling anything 'witchcraft' in modern Western culture is going to be a semantic clusterfuck. Because much of what the neo-Pagan movement refers to as 'witchcraft' are just folk magic practices that were recast as witchcraft in the early 20th century. Which is its own kettle of worms.

                Second, I define paganism a little differently, and lot more specifically, than most do. I see it as intrinsically involving one's habitat and environment (to which I include urban areas). Connecting to it on a deep level, whether that is spiritual or ethical or what-have-you. It's not inherently theistic, let alone polytheistic, though it happens to be that most pagans are polytheistic or animistic in some fashion. But that's more of an incidental thing relating to 19th century Romanticism's focus on nature and its call-back to pre-Christian folk practices, and the extent to which the Occult revival took those principles in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

                So, I don't think that you have to be theistic to be a pagan. Or that being polytheistic makes you pagan. Or that witchcraft is inherently pagan or theistic, or anything other than just a rebranding of folk magic.

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                  #38
                  Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                  Using energy work can be considered atheist pagan. After all the existence of energy is truth no?

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                    #39
                    Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                    Originally posted by Sondst View Post
                    Using energy work can be considered atheist pagan. After all the existence of energy is truth no?
                    I'm not following your reasoning here. I know a number of energy workers who are Christian. One is a Buddhist. None of them self-identify as Pagan.
                    "The doer alone learneth." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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                      #40
                      Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                      Originally posted by Sondst View Post
                      Using energy work can be considered atheist pagan.
                      No, that just means you kinda practice magic. Not particularly complex or effective magic, but something.
                      But then, most religions do that. Religious thought is magical thinking. But it doesn't mean that you have a pagan outlook on things, which is more tied in with agricultural or pastoral idealism and the concept of nature as something sacred.

                      After all the existence of energy is truth no?
                      Not in the way that you mean 'energy'. The magical or occult concept of energy is something that is easily debatable. Just because we believe it to be real does not mean that it is necessarily so.

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                        #41
                        Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                        Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
                        Not in the way that you mean 'energy'. The magical or occult concept of energy is something that is easily debatable. Just because we believe it to be real does not mean that it is necessarily so.
                        Yes - it looks (actually 'feels') to me as if the Chi in Asian martial arts is pretty much the same as muscle memory in the West, and, in Asian martial arts, 'flowing with the Tao' is the same as 'using body mechanics well.'

                        Since what one calls it is based more on tradition, teaching, and feeling than it is on any objectively verifiable data, that "energy" is debatable.
                        Every moment of a life is a horrible tragedy, a slapstick comedy, dark nihilism, golden illumination, or nothing at all; depending on how we write the story we tell ourselves.

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                          #42
                          Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                          I meant that energy as in elecrticity, flowing constantly ect. Its not hard for an atheist to take that known type of scientific energy and conclude magical energy is real to. Perhaps I should of been more clear. That was my belief once upon a time when I was atheist.

                          Also I did not mean that using energy makes them pagan. I meant that most atheists don't believe in it so the belief in it and a certain number of other things could make you pagan. You can combine those two things togeather to be considered what you want.

                          I did not make a clear or descriptive post my bad. Not sure if much of this even makes sense. My bad lol.

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                            #43
                            Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                            Here is the deal .. If you are an Atheist you shouldn't care one Way or another. Just do what you do. However, I have run into .. more individuals then I would like .. consider.. Anarchist, once they declare their allegiance to that belief .. it negates their purpose.. Now we have many organized groups of Atheist.. that.. my good people.. make's it a belief.. and.. if you carry it long enough down the road .. A Religion.

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                              #44
                              Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                              I use the term secular witch as appose to atheist pagan. If you are not a witch, you are not a witch. I am not a pagan (I can't believe in one god so I can't see how I would believe in many) so I don't call myself one. Still, a name is just a name. I wouldn't get upset by what people call me unless you need some drama today. Did they seem to be wanting to pick a fight?

                              I am me, if someone wants to know me instead of just label me then we can sit, talk and learn about each other. If they want to label me an atheist, pagan, witch or b**ch, it doesn't matter. They can't change me, only I can do that.

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                                #45
                                Re: Atheist Paganism equated to just being called a 'witch'?

                                I see the term witch as specific to someone to practices witchcraft, but I also think it was originally a term of rebellion against social norms more than that, much in the way the word queer or queen have been embraced. Now that "witch" is a less shocking term to most people, others use it as a catch all term for "paganism or other religious stuff I don't understand that might involve trees"

                                But then again, I tend to roll my eyes first and ask questions later, especially when it comes to Reddit.

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