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Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

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    Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

    Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
    I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are;
    because a could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star.
    I'd rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far;
    for a might have-been has never been,
    but a has was once an are.

    -Milton Berle-

    #2
    Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

    This is very interesting. I never thought of communication that way before.
    People are meant to be loved,
    And things are meant to be used.
    The reason the world is chaos is because
    People are being used and things are being loved.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

      Sounds good to me.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

        It also raises the question why some people dream in different languages.... I often do. Sometimes they're languages I know, sometimes not. And I've met others who do the same.

        (BTW it was the Babel fish, after the Tower of Babel, rather than the Gabble Fish - though I must admit I do like the idea of a Gabble Fish talking very quickly in different languages. I only mentioned it in case anyone wanted to look it up )
        www.thewolfenhowlepress.com


        Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

          Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
          It also raises the question why some people dream in different languages.... I often do. Sometimes they're languages I know, sometimes not. And I've met others who do the same.
          Really? That is interesting. That's never happened to me.

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

            I like the thought you have put into this. It shows real depth of spirituality instead of mindlessly gobbling up what you might come across in books, the internet, through your peers, etc.

            I shall try on the garment of someone who believes in gods to reply to this.

            I have always assumed that, if one Pantheon is true, then all the others must then be UNtrue. The Heavens would no longer be a place of solace if there was constantly wars going on amongst their gods. Therefore, the gods of the Pantheon that is 'right' must have known that they created people TO be different, and are therefore able to communicate with their underlings in whatever way was best for them. OR, let's assume that they didn't - this would certainly explain a lot about the Bible/other religious texts, but then that suggests that the gods didn't have foresight to know this, thus making them fallible...

            Anyway.

            As for me, I do not believe in gods, but rather one great force of nature that is both good and bad, always right, and provides joy and lessons under rocks and leaves if you care to look for them. The language we speak in? Doesn't matter. I'm pretty sure that this force doesn't even see me as a sloppy bag of meat, but rather a glowing being that sometimes just needs a little help getting lit.
            No one tells the wind which way to blow.

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

              It's hard for me to explain my fascination with ancient languages. It's as though you are part of a timeless pattern, and drawing power from that pattern.

              The best analogy I can use is EM wave constructive interference, when two sets of waves that are in sync amplify one another. In the same way, I feel that using ritual words that synchronize with the "echoes" of past rituals are empowered. If you sing an ancient Greek hymn for instance, you may get a feeling that many ancient voices are chanting with you in unison. That's my take on the significance of language.
              Last edited by Yazichestvo; 18 Apr 2013, 12:47.
              If you want to be thought intelligent, just agree with everyone.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

                Tylluan – thank you for the correction, I was too lazy to look it up and its been a while since I’ve listened to the book (I really like the BBC audio of it). I have also had dreams in different languages, usually Japanese which I was studying and listen to a lot threw movies and anime, but through dream logic I could always understand what we where all saying. I would have to wonder if the dreams in which one speaks a different language is always a spiritual dream or just a standard dream. Also I’ve always thought that our “filters” and egos are much thinner/weaker when we sleep which is why we get so many spiritual messages threw our dreams.

                Bjorn – thank you for the complement, I do try and think deeply and like to get into the real function and theory behind most things. I suppose this theory would only really apply to someone of my particular standing as a hard polytheist. I believe that all of the gods exist and the vast majority of them are as different as you or I. As for afterlives I have a number of different theories as to that but have decided for now that I won’t ‘know’ till I’m dead so I try not to worry about it too much. I have a similar theory about creation that ties into it and perhaps we can start a thread about that in future as well.

                Yazichestov – my fascination is with languages in general and how awesome I think it would be to speak most of them. Just imagine how many different ways you could describe something if you had access to all the languages in the world? There are a number of faiths/traditions that believe in the power behind the sound and history of the words said in prayer and ritual. The term in Shinto is kotodama, the sounds used in ancient Japanese prayers where as important as the words, the vibrations as you chant them as powerful as the meaning behind the fraises. It’s a very beautiful concept and lends much credibility to learning to pray in the ancient languages of the gods one is praying to. But I don’t think one needs to speak those languages for the gods to hear and in the case of those who receive messages threw prayer or meditation the gods usually convey said message in ones native language (in my experience talking to others anyway) rather then the old language that the listener might not understand.
                I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are;
                because a could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star.
                I'd rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far;
                for a might have-been has never been,
                but a has was once an are.

                -Milton Berle-

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

                  Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                  It also raises the question why some people dream in different languages.... I often do. Sometimes they're languages I know, sometimes not. And I've met others who do the same.
                  I don't know if I count or not, but I keep dreaming in German even though I have almost entirely lost the ability to speak it when I'm awake. I don't usually remember dreaming in German, but I am sure I do, because when I wake up, for the first few minutes I have German sentences going around in my head. Considering I use Japanese every single day, you'd assume I'd dream in that language, but my Japanese dreams are always bilingual. That is, I'll be in a situation where I need to speak Japanese, but otherwise I'm still functioning in English.

                  It does make me wonder if there is something significant about it. I still insist that Brigantia has something to do with Germany, or my time in Germany had something to do with Brigantia.. I'm not sure yet.

                  Anyway, I also believe that gods don't really speak in words as we would recognise them, except in my analogy, it's not a bable fish, but the TARDIS that translates. Mind you, I have experienced being rejected by an entire pantheon of deities and spirits, and I did my best to speak the language of their land. (T_T)

                  Maybe gods can be racist? :/
                  夕方に急なにわか雨は「夕立」と呼ばれるなら、なぜ朝ににわか雨は「朝立ち」と呼ばれないの? ^^If a sudden rain shower in the evening is referred to as an 'evening stand', then why isn't a shower in the morning called 'morning stand'?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

                    Originally posted by Tylluan Penry View Post
                    It also raises the question why some people dream in different languages.... I often do. Sometimes they're languages I know, sometimes not. And I've met others who do the same.
                    I have heard of this though I must say in my dreams I'm either spoken to directly in my langue or just through not verbal gestures.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

                      I experienced NDEs when I was a child. During them, I would first walk with a glowing being. Then I would be taken to another, "greater" being. I always understood them both perfectly clearly.

                      The reason is because these Beings communicate to us in CONCEPTS. They (for lack of a better word) download concepts into our mind. Our mind then translates that into a form that we can understand. Which for some will be images, for others, words. For some, a combination of them. Others will experience it as simply a "knowing", while some as sensations together with knowing, images, or words. It's our own mind that chooses how to bring the concept out of the conceptual stage and into conscious understanding.

                      Additionally, "the other side" has no real "word" for angels, guides, etc. Only a concept. This is why some people will meet this glowing being and call It an angel (and/or see It as male or female) and another will see It as an American Indian, yet another as a Monk, while another sees it as a spirit animal, or a ghost.

                      I specifically asked this precious being what It was during one of my experiences. It found this amusing and told me plainly that most of the time, humans just applied a label to It, it was unique for someone to ask. But that was because I was a child, and had not yet had concepts HANDED to me by society or "learning". So I had to ask because I had no concept for It.

                      I understood that It was an avatar of the Greater Divine Intelligence well before I understood the "concept" attached to the word "avatar". I had a concept, but no word. So I asked the question because my mind had no language for the concept.

                      Gods speak our language because they give us concepts, not words or anything else. Our own mind gives us words to match the concept.

                      That's my UPG based upon my NDEs.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

                        Originally posted by SPhoenix View Post
                        I experienced NDEs when I was a child. During them, I would first walk with a glowing being. Then I would be taken to another, "greater" being. I always understood them both perfectly clearly.

                        The reason is because these Beings communicate to us in CONCEPTS. They (for lack of a better word) download concepts into our mind. Our mind then translates that into a form that we can understand. Which for some will be images, for others, words. For some, a combination of them. Others will experience it as simply a "knowing", while some as sensations together with knowing, images, or words. It's our own mind that chooses how to bring the concept out of the conceptual stage and into conscious understanding.

                        Additionally, "the other side" has no real "word" for angels, guides, etc. Only a concept. This is why some people will meet this glowing being and call It an angel (and/or see It as male or female) and another will see It as an American Indian, yet another as a Monk, while another sees it as a spirit animal, or a ghost.

                        I specifically asked this precious being what It was during one of my experiences. It found this amusing and told me plainly that most of the time, humans just applied a label to It, it was unique for someone to ask. But that was because I was a child, and had not yet had concepts HANDED to me by society or "learning". So I had to ask because I had no concept for It.

                        I understood that It was an avatar of the Greater Divine Intelligence well before I understood the "concept" attached to the word "avatar". I had a concept, but no word. So I asked the question because my mind had no language for the concept.

                        Gods speak our language because they give us concepts, not words or anything else. Our own mind gives us words to match the concept.

                        That's my UPG based upon my NDEs.
                        Thank you for sharing your story. I understand what you are saying though I was thinking they communicated threw energy charged or flavored with the concept they want to get across. Your right, concepts are pretty much universal and our soul/minds might translate it one way or another. Over all I think we are on the same page or very close too it. Though I view the gods, guardians and spirits as individuals and not all as avatars to one higher consciousness. But that’s just me. The problem with almost any theory is that it will be subjective to the roots of the person’s beliefs. My roots are hard polytheist but another’s might be soft, and another pantheist and so on.
                        I'd rather be a could-be if I cannot be an are;
                        because a could-be is a maybe who is reaching for a star.
                        I'd rather be a has-been than a might-have-been, by far;
                        for a might have-been has never been,
                        but a has was once an are.

                        -Milton Berle-

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

                          Originally posted by Shawn Cameron View Post
                          Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
                          Yep, I totally agree. Spiritual and telepathic communications have to go through the mind to be registered in thought but originate in a much more pure energy form. That's why spiritual matters are often nebulous I believe, because one person can hear "White elephant" and another can hear "White rhino" and both are technically hearing the same thing, but interpreting differently based on their brains' ability to conceptualize external stimuli of this nature.

                          By extension, telepathy IMO is often muddied down because you have TWO brains (and spirits or whatnot) attempting to both send and receive. The ability to extrapolate the core underlying meaning from limited or scattered data is a must at that point. Between skilled telepaths, this can allow communication that bridges cultural and linguistic barriers. That's my belief anyway, not everyone believes in the existence of telepathy and that's fine.

                          I think Gods, spirits, etc. don't technically speak language the way we think of it or perhaps even feel emotions the way we do; and by extension, other people don't think of things exactly the way we do or feel the exact kinds of things in response. Anything that anyone sees, hears, smells, touches, tastes, or experiences spiritually is strictly subjective and not usually to be taken exactly at face value; often with underlying similarities between entire cultures' reports of their experiences throughout history, but a noticeable lack of precision past a certain point, a ceiling every person seems to hit. We are inherently limited by the human brain's ability to sense spiritual stimuli, just as our eyesight can only perceive a certain spectrum of colors. As Paul, striving at spirituality from his particular angle of Judeo-Christian belief, said wistfully: "For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." The hope of one day perceiving and understanding in full plagues every seeker from every religious/spiritual walk.

                          Just my belief on the matter.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

                            This is intresting, and some how connects for me to the ideas world of Appleton.
                            Like the words we use, each one in their own language symbolizes the idea of the thing. When the gods using the idea thing in communication with us- it's automatically swiches to the 'shadow' in our language.
                            But this is funny, most of the time I think in English, and when I communicate with deities they speak to me in Hebrew- my native language and when I'm answering I actually need to translate my thoughts to Hebrew.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Why Spirits/Gods Speak Our Native Tongue: A Theory,

                              Here is a spin-off theory that my sister has had:

                              Words are energy. All human languages are energy, and no one language has more 'power' over another. However, it is a communication concept. Deities may not have to speak at all to communicate. Instead, they manipulate the energy around them to get their message across. For us, this energy manipulation can come to us in several forms: Clairvoyance, Clairaudience, Clairsentience, and/or Claircognizance. Generally, each person has one specific method of converting the messages of the gods unconsciously: Sounds, Pictures, Words, Text, Memory, ect.

                              Because it is an energy manipulation, the gods do not need to know that an apple symbolizes knowledge for you, but love for another person. The energies of the universe will match up their message with images within your memory that match what the deities want to bring across. A message about death, for example, can have different images for everyone, no matter how "Non-Mainstream" their associations are. If they associate a plastic water bottle with death.. Well, then they'll see a plastic water bottle!


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