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    Ultimate Church

    I always thought there should be more unity with religions. Almost all religions whether it includes a pantheon of gods like the Norse or one god like the Abrahamic religions or ones that are more philisophical are all connected. I see religion as a set of spirtuaul guidlines and to help the unfortunate and have peace. Aside from the dark religions, pretty much all the religions have the same end goal: To help those in need and be peaceful with each other and use powers to help those in need whether it's through exorcism, meditation, holy water, the chakra ect.

    I always thought there should be mystics of each religion united and dedicating themselves to help those through the power of whatever gods they worship or through any great and mystical philosopher. I say Jews, Christians, Muslims, Pagans, Wiccans, Buddhists, Hinduists and others unite and form some sort of group. The religions could form an ultimate church for worship where each religion can worship there or form an orginization of some sort. They are different but they are all similar in their end goals about using good spiritual energy in some form another. How come they don't unite despite their differences in gods or customs? They all want to have peace despite the fact they do things differently.

    #2
    Re: Ultimate Church

    Personally i think its a good idea and could potentionally stop religeous wars and arguments. However, im willing to bet that someone will come along after me an prove exactly why the above would never happen.

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      #3
      Re: Ultimate Church

      Originally posted by Kahlenda View Post
      Personally i think its a good idea and could potentionally stop religeous wars and arguments. However, im willing to bet that someone will come along after me an prove exactly why the above would never happen.
      Sorry to be the one! I don't think that could happen because, although the destination is the same, the paths are completely different. Their rituals and views are not compatible in a single center of worship, unless it was built like a college university with separate buildings or rooms for each version of worship, but then again, that would just be segregation on a smaller scale- but that would be something I would love to see and be a part of, honestly.

      The other problem is culture. Each religion is different because cultures are different. Most American Christians probably wouldn't understand the Hindu Chakra system and the plethora of Gods and Goddesses, most European Wiccans probably wouldn't understand why Jews worship a jealous God, and most Japanese Zen Buddhists wouldn't understand why people worship Gods in the first place because there is no Enlightenment to found in external sources.

      Many Yogis, the Dalai Lama, Ammachita, among others I am sure, devote their entire lives to this sort of ideal, except not on a physical level. A whole new religion with its own way to worship would have to built, not discarding but adapting, all the faiths protocols and/or wisdom into one big happy doctrine... this has been tried before (the wisdom, not the protocol) most recently by L Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology- and look what good that brought. That was the point of Buddhas Dharma five thousand years ago and Christ's Gospels two thousand years ago- and look what happened to Christ!

      This is why , if I had to choose a religion, I would just call it Magic, because magic, in and of it self, has no dogma, god, rules, or anything. It just is and it is applied by the use of whatever religious, or non religious, protocols you choose- same with the idea of 'God'. I think it's more about having a place to learn about other cultures spiritual heritage, not so much a place to actually worship said heritage.

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        #4
        Re: Ultimate Church

        I'm not an expert, but isn't Unitarian Universalism something along those lines?

        Anyway I'm not sure it would work as an actual real world organization or institution, but there are websites and online communities out there along those lines.

        - - - Updated - - -

        I'm not an expert, but isn't Unitarian Universalism something along those lines?

        Anyway I'm not sure it would work as an actual real world organization or institution, but there are websites and online communities out there along those lines.

        unless it was built like a college university with separate buildings or rooms for each version of worship,
        That would actually be really cool, how fun would it be to be able to meditate in a buddhist temple, then go to a solstice or equinox celebration in a grove outside, etc etc.

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Ultimate Church

          Unitarian Universalists follow this very thing. Generally, they preach more along the lines of it being most important to be a good person/good citizen. They teach open mindedness and are accepting of all paths. It's a place where people can gather to gain understanding of each others beliefs and talk about how to best contribute to society, that sort of thing. Often they will have smaller groups of similar religioned peoples who meet to perform specific rituals/practices/etc. The UU in my home town had Christians, Wiccans, Atheists, and I believe even a Muslim attending the same service.
          We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

          I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
          It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
          Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
          -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

          Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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            #6
            Re: Ultimate Church

            I'm not really that in favour of literal unity between religions. They are too many different viewpoints, too many strongly-held beliefs, and too much variation. I feel that, not only is it impractical, but a complete unification between the world's religions would stifle creativity, variation, and diversity. Not to insult it, because I really do admire what it has done and what it is, but Unitarian Universalism can be critiqued for a perceived "genericness", which is rooted in its lack of any specific set ideas or practices.
            I would like to see more cooperation and tolerance between religious groups and religious identities. A lessened absolutism about beliefs, practices, and feelings. But I still think that the diversity of those is what makes religion a vibrant and living part of the human experience.

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              #7
              Re: Ultimate Church

              Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
              Not to insult it, because I really do admire what it has done and what it is, but Unitarian Universalism can be critiqued for a perceived "genericness", which is rooted in its lack of any specific set ideas or practices..
              This is absolutely true, but is done better by some individual UU churches than others. I personally do love the doctrines myself though, its why I drag myself out to one weekly! It is a nice and uplifting addition to my own practices, but it is an addition, not a replacement, or stand-in.

              Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
              I would like to see more cooperation and tolerance between religious groups and religious identities. A lessened absolutism about beliefs, practices, and feelings. But I still think that the diversity of those is what makes religion a vibrant and living part of the human experience.
              What you said right herewould be nice to see more of. From all sides.
              http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

              But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
              ~Jim Butcher

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Ultimate Church

                Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                Aside from the dark religions, pretty much all the religions have the same end goal: To help those in need and be peaceful with each other and use powers to help those in need whether it's through exorcism, meditation, holy water, the chakra ect.
                Just out of curiosity, of which "dark religions" are you speaking?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Ultimate Church

                  Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                  To help those in need and be peaceful with each other
                  Bingo.

                  I don't believe there's a need to unite religions in terms of worship and theology. After all it would be pointless. If I agreed with your religion I would be a follower of it. However, I can totally see religious leaders uniting to fight poverty or helping their community. In my opinion, this would work on a local level even better than a global level.

                  For example, there's a Children's Cancer hospital in Egypt that was created based on charity work. And they had both Muslim scholars and members of the Church campaigning to raise money for the hospital. Stuff like that is really realistic and it can totally work.
                  [4:82]

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                    #10
                    Re: Ultimate Church

                    I think that's a great idea for other people. I wouldn't want anything to do with it, because I'm still too bitter about christianity as a whole. I do not want christianity preached to me, period. I also don't want certain other religions preached to me, period. I do NOT believe they have anyone's best interest at heart at all (not saying INDIVIDUALS don't, just the holy books/ teachings of those religions, to be CLEAR!).

                    So while I think it sounds wonderful, it wouldn't be for me. There are religious beliefs I really have less than zero interest in being anywhere near mostly because I would pick a fight. I wouldn't be able to keep my blamed mouth shut. As soon as they started in about the whole "sinners, worms of the earth" business, and the "someone had to be killed before god could stand to be around you" business, I'd go OFF. Right, wrong, or indifferent, I just wouldn't be able to hold my peace on that.

                    Which isn't any anything to do with individuals who believe that way, it's about the belief itself.

                    I can't agree that all religions teach the same basic things. And I do feel that some of the basic teachings of some of these religions are directly harmful.

                    So I guess I get to be one of the people who shows why "it'll never happen" .

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Ultimate Church

                      Originally posted by Torey View Post
                      Just out of curiosity, of which "dark religions" are you speaking?
                      I speak of Satanism and I'm not talking about the Church of Satan, I am reffering to those who are the real hardcore ones the ones that actually perform dark rituals and thhose who worship Kali in Hinduism. You probably might know of the Thuggee Cult, the one similar described in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. They aren't exactly the same but the Thugee are real. Just any who would worship dark gods, even in Egypt like Set too.

                      I see this as an opportunity to be more united and one religion can learn something from another. I believe there is reincarnation but also after lifes and spirtual realms and dimensions. Perhaps if one is to practice and commune with other gods it may put us into a better standing with certain gods and it would be easier to receive help. It is a shame wars were fought with because of different religions despite the fact most religions follow the peaceful path. Why would one want to war with their friendly neighbor? This also might help enlighten us even more.

                      We may not agree with everyone's philosophy but it doesn't mean one shouldn't be willing to work together either. We use the same energy and follow the peaceful path. Maybe one could peform rituals that are more potent if one side is willing to cooperate with the other. I figure the magic or spirtual energy would be more potent of we used our similar but different rituals and or energy. This is just a mere thought however. Just wondered what you thought.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Ultimate Church

                        Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
                        Not to insult it, because I really do admire what it has done and what it is, but Unitarian Universalism can be critiqued for a perceived "genericness", which is rooted in its lack of any specific set ideas or practices.
                        I disagree on the basis of my experiences in a number of UU congregations. Sure, they do not have, a creed outlying what deity you should believe in, and as a result, they do not have a specific mythology...and, as a resultthey consider the the sum of the human experience with deity (and its accompanying mythology) to be worthy of consideration as a source of inspiration and knowledge. But that doesn't mean there is a lack of any specific set of ideas or practices. Acceptance of the 7 principles, for example, are pretty non-negotiable...if you don't "believe in" and do your best to practice them, they you really aren't UU. And while UU service layout is pretty much your standard mainline Protestant service (which makes sense since Unitarians and Universalists both originated as congregationalist Christian denominations), UU congregations do have a number of UU specific rituals, liturgy, prayers, hymns, and other components that are unique to UU's. Sure, they are willing to try out stuff from other traditions as well, but it is generally reframed in the context of the UU experience.
                        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                        sigpic

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                          #13
                          Re: Ultimate Church

                          Originally posted by Aeran View Post
                          I'm not an expert, but isn't Unitarian Universalism something along those lines?

                          Anyway I'm not sure it would work as an actual real world organization or institution, but there are websites and online communities out there along those lines.

                          - - - Updated - - -

                          I'm not an expert, but isn't Unitarian Universalism something along those lines?

                          Anyway I'm not sure it would work as an actual real world organization or institution, but there are websites and online communities out there along those lines.



                          That would actually be really cool, how fun would it be to be able to meditate in a buddhist temple, then go to a solstice or equinox celebration in a grove outside, etc etc.

                          I thought that might be pretty cool too. I believe one can acheive even more enlightenment this way, by following not only Jesus' teachings, but also The Buddha's teachings, learning the chakra structure, reincarnation ect. I see religion as not only a spirtual helper but also informative. It would sort of be like a university and a church so to speak. Christians and Wiccans and Pagans can help one another, whether it's peforming exorcisms to cast out demons or using special or sacred herbs or brewing certain potions and doing certain incantations. I figure they can not only help each other out but others as well. I think it wouldn't be so conflicting to to certain rooms to pray to certain gods and or philosophers as they have all followed the peaceful path. They followed it by doing certain things, but they follow the peaceful path nonetheless. It could be an enlighting experience and a helpful one.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Ultimate Church

                            Originally posted by Alienist View Post
                            I speak of Satanism and I'm not talking about the Church of Satan, I am reffering to those who are the real hardcore ones the ones that actually perform dark rituals and thhose who worship Kali in Hinduism. You probably might know of the Thuggee Cult, the one similar described in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom. They aren't exactly the same but the Thugee are real. Just any who would worship dark gods, even in Egypt like Set too.
                            The Thugees are only one group, the best known group, that worship Kali as a blood thirsty and violent deity. To other Kali devotees she is the Divine Mother. She represents karma, time and the humanities shadow side that we must come to understand. Kali is not evil. That is just like saying Hecate is evil because she is a Goddess of the Underworld, or Vampires are evil because they need life force to sustain- they are just functions of their nature and not evil or bad. I think the term you should use is 'harmful' not 'dark,' because harmful denotes something painful or insincere for no good reason, whereas dark can mean a plethora of different things. I say this because you mention "hardcore" Satanists that do "dark" rituals- if you ever look inside yourself in ritual format and get in touch with your animal or other negative self but are doing it for illuminating purposes, this is a dark ritual because you are delving into your psyche. Doing a ritual under the Full Moon is a dark ritual- but not harmful.

                            Set was not originally evil. He is best know for severing Osiris into 14 pieces and being the God of Storms and Disease, but he was once worshiped as a noble God of Wisdom. Dark gods and religions are not harmful they are testing of your Will, Responsibility and Self-Determination. In a post that espouses unity among religion, you should allow even the dark religions- this is where the other religions will actually learn something, because the beliefs and practices are different on a whole new level. The other thing is what a lot of people now consider 'dark' and 'evil' gods and spirits are because of religious zealots demonizing them. To Zorastrians deva was the word to denote an evil being- but to the Hindis, deva just meant spirit (asura were the demons). The same is true for djinn. One cultue (sorry, but I forgot), consider djinn to be the most evil of evil and the children and minions of Shaitan, where to Islam (I think?) the djinn were similar to the Hindu deva- they were just spirits of good or bad depending on their character.

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                              #15
                              Re: Ultimate Church

                              Originally posted by PsykhikosAnarchosNautikos View Post
                              The Thugees are only one group, the best known group, that worship Kali as a blood thirsty and violent deity. To other Kali devotees she is the Divine Mother. She represents karma, time and the humanities shadow side that we must come to understand. Kali is not evil. That is just like saying Hecate is evil because she is a Goddess of the Underworld, or Vampires are evil because they need life force to sustain- they are just functions of their nature and not evil or bad. I think the term you should use is 'harmful' not 'dark,' because harmful denotes something painful or insincere for no good reason, whereas dark can mean a plethora of different things. I say this because you mention "hardcore" Satanists that do "dark" rituals- if you ever look inside yourself in ritual format and get in touch with your animal or other negative self but are doing it for illuminating purposes, this is a dark ritual because you are delving into your psyche. Doing a ritual under the Full Moon is a dark ritual- but not harmful.

                              Set was not originally evil. He is best know for severing Osiris into 14 pieces and being the God of Storms and Disease, but he was once worshiped as a noble God of Wisdom. Dark gods and religions are not harmful they are testing of your Will, Responsibility and Self-Determination. In a post that espouses unity among religion, you should allow even the dark religions- this is where the other religions will actually learn something, because the beliefs and practices are different on a whole new level. The other thing is what a lot of people now consider 'dark' and 'evil' gods and spirits are because of religious zealots demonizing them. To Zorastrians deva was the word to denote an evil being- but to the Hindis, deva just meant spirit (asura were the demons). The same is true for djinn. One cultue (sorry, but I forgot), consider djinn to be the most evil of evil and the children and minions of Shaitan, where to Islam (I think?) the djinn were similar to the Hindu deva- they were just spirits of good or bad depending on their character.
                              It's very true. Harmful and dark are different things. When I say dark religions I mean those that do harmful acts like sacrifices, peforming curses, anything involving death or destruction in some form against the innocent. There are the Moloch worshippers who would sacrifice children that existed long ago. It's true other religions would make others look evil. For example there are a few Christians that would say Wiccans are devil worshippers even though they have 2 main deities, neither of them are the devil or act like the devil in any way. I speak of religions that do harm to ones self and others and of course there were some in the past and even today there are. I know what you mean that dark gods test the will but there are some even to this day that worship harmful deities that would use the people as if they were slaves. That is what I mean by dark religions.

                              But as I said this was a mere thought. I know of the Unitarians that preach something like this but I figured to be even more effective, there should be mystics from each religion. Basically do what Jesus did to help others like healing and stuff like that but in a larger scale. I know of Jewish, Christian and Muslim mystics despite the fact that the main religion doesn't approve of magic. I figure if such forces from each religion were combined they could help one another even more so.

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