(super)hero vs mythic hero

[Ophidia]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

What bothers you about Christo-Wiccans?

I'm old fashioned - let's leave it at that or it's going to derail the thread.

[Dumuzi]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

There's a difference between:

1. I think what you're doing is wrong, theologically speaking, but you are free to do what you want.

2. Stop believing in X or I will punch you in the face!

[Denarius]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

I am open to the possibility of Superman existing as a real being somewhere, just as much as I believe in the possible existence of kappas, chupacabras, muses, demons, and good lawyers.

I've never really understood why existence is grounds for worship, god or no. If I bow to someone, it is as an equal. God, king, president; tinker, tailor, soldier, sailor... it matters not. If they can wipe me from existence with a thought, then that's all the more reason to stand my ground. I don't abide by bullies.

Aside from my hubristic objections to worship as a concept, I see nothing wrong with people doing so. Everyone else can light themselves on fire for all I care.

At any rate, no one knows whether gods exist or not; so who's to say that Spider-man did or did not spin the stars in the sky from his web? Makes about as much sense as anything else.

[Ophidia]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

At any rate, no one knows whether gods exist or not; so who's to say that Spider-man did or did not spin the stars in the sky from his web? Makes about as much sense as anything else.

No, no, it wasn't Spiderman that did it, it was Madame Web!

[Raphaeline]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

GAH! I had to stop reading and post because I'm quoting everyone in my attempt to address all of the things.

I don't have time to read all those links at the moment, but I think everyone on the board knows my stance on it, already.

Kushiel.

Lol, I thought of you and Rafe when I first started reading all that crap...

Yeah, I definitely had something to say about the topic... and while on the topic of Kushiel's Legacy, I've been giving it some thought and I think part of the reason giving Eisheth worship didn't feel odd to me was because that character is actually a goddess. I don't think offering worship to Spiderman or the My Little Pony pantheon would be something I'm comfortable with, though - I wouldn't be able to disconnect from the sense of fiction I feel from those characters for it to do any good.

Haha, yeah! I even have an epithet to Namaah tattooed to my bust! ("This is how we pray" is the tattoo, which follows the sentence "we who are servants of Namaah.")

That beats mine. I have Phaedra's marque (which I intend to cover with new work before too long because it's terribly done) and "Love As Thou Wilt" written under it. Don't be surprised if I'm soon sporting the same quote where my current and sub-par ink is now

"damn it, I thought I escaped this crap when I left Catholicism...[COLOR=#333333]its not your freaking place to question the sincerity of my beliefs. You aren't the Pagan Pope. And why the heck am I defending someone that wants to worship Tony Stark anyhow? This whole debate just makes me pissed off at everyone. Shut up, you all look stupid, arguing over your imaginary friends like that!"

This is my primary argument, too! If I needed my beliefs reviewed and approved for legitimacy, I'd be a Christian and be done with it. But I gave up the perks of being an adherent of the popular tradition because one of the greatest benefits of Paganism - one of its most fulfilling qualities - is that I have the freedom to seek what I believe in my heart and be faithful to it without requiring validation from fellow practitioners.


I'm largely annoyed, more than anything else, that the people who put others down because they choose to be Pop Culture Pagans seem to do it because they're concerned about their own integrity, as though they take it personally, as though someone who has a shrine to Batman (I'm lookin' at you, D) is bringing down their ancient deities to the level of comic books and children's cartoons. In their embarrassment, they are too quick to condemn those Pagans and try to hide them in the closet, maybe because they think people will look at someone who leaves offerings to the Caped Crusader and making a sweeping generalization - "THIS is Paganism? They're all lunatics!"

In fact, this is an opportunity for all Pagans to step up, defend Pop Culture Pagans, and use it as an opportunity to teach something most of us DO believe in - like that we all have personal religious paths that are equally valid and should be treated with respect.

[Ula]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

I have avoided saying too much on this. Until three weeks ago I never heard of PCP. I think the spells based on movies and show is not a problem. Witchcraft is fluid and based on energy and intent more than a god or goddess. I really don't care what people do otherwise. I have quit following some PCPs on tumblr due to the vitrol and hate they are spewing about me or my gods. I can't equate Batman to Thor. Just can't but I am ok with you doing it. That doesn't seem to be good enough. Do what you want and I don't care. Start knocking on my door and want to convert, nah. Ain't happening. As someone who is on the outside of standard Heathenism I say do your thing, defend yourself if you want or need to, I am solitary and will leave you alone.

[Denarius]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

I can't equate Batman to Thor. Just can't

What about Thor to (Marvel) Thor?

[Ula]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

What about Thor to (Marvel) Thor?

What about them? Stan Lee may have based his Thor on Thor but they do not share the same history. But again people can do what they want.

[thalassa]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

I'm largely annoyed, more than anything else, that the people who put others down because they choose to be Pop Culture Pagans seem to do it because they're concerned about their own integrity, as though they take it personally, as though someone who has a shrine to Batman (I'm lookin' at you, D) is bringing down their ancient deities to the level of comic books and children's cartoons. In their embarrassment, they are too quick to condemn those Pagans and try to hide them in the closet, maybe because they think people will look at someone who leaves offerings to the Caped Crusader and making a sweeping generalization - "THIS is Paganism? They're all lunatics!"

In fact, this is an opportunity for all Pagans to step up, defend Pop Culture Pagans, and use it as an opportunity to teach something most of us DO believe in - like that we all have personal religious paths that are equally valid and should be treated with respect.

This, this I agree with. TBH, yeah, I think worshiping Batman is a bit out there for me. But. I also think worshiping Thor or Ix Chel is a bit out there for me. If this is how the gods speak to you, then who the hell am I to tell you to stop listening? "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." (Thomas Jefferson) ...nor, for that matter, does whom one choose to worship.

I'm not a hard polytheist. In fact, I'm just as comfortable with the idea that the gods are a pleasant bit of delusional psychobabble that makes me happy as I am with the idea that they are really for real. So...for me, this idea of "my gods are REAL, but yours are FAKE" is quite sophomoric--and seems to be fear masquerading as elitism.

(most of what I've read so far is very anti-PCP, so perhaps I'm experiencing some media bias in terms of whom the underdog is at the moment)

[PsykhikosAnarchosNautikos]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

Like I've mentioned in other posts I have Dragonball Z characters on my altar near my bed and a box of Dragon Balls as well. I stopped the whole working with gods and spirits thing, because too many voices and confusions were coming through (part psychosis and part divine pulling, I guess). How many different roles, wives, husbands, children, powers, etc, have a number of deities gone through throughout mythology and history? So many it's hard to see the 'truth' and this is why gods are just ideas, just like comic book or anime characters. They each change according to the needs of the people.

I've been watching Justice League on Netflix and noticed Green Lantern was black and just heard about Hawk Girl. I was talking to a friend about this, and was like, who's John Stewart (Green Lantern), and he said because the writers felt that they needed cultural diversity (in the original Justice League, Green Lantern was Hal Jordan, who is white) they took out Hal Jordan in place of John Stewart and Hawk Girl is added for more of a balance of male/female ratio. I guess Hawk Girl was originally Hawk Man- like Kwan Yin was originally Avolakiteshvara (Thousand Armed [male] Buddha of Compassion).

Mythology is a lot like fiction- their stories and powers change over time. It's the way the human mind works. I take the existential philosophy on this - "Existence precedes essence." In other words, we give power or take power (as a culture or community) to what already exists. 5 thousand years ago we needed a more personal approach to spirituality, along came Buddha. Two thousand years ago we needed a loving approach to God, along came Jesus. Today we need a break from greed, terrorists and boredom, along comes the Avengers.

Deification of fictional characters is deification of imagination. This means we can give power do what doesn't exist. What better way to work your magic and walk towards enlightenment?

[Ula]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

This, this I agree with. TBH, yeah, I think worshiping Batman is a bit out there for me. But. I also think worshiping Thor or Ix Chel is a bit out there for me. If this is how the gods speak to you, then who the hell am I to tell you to stop listening? "But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg." (Thomas Jefferson) ...nor, for that matter, does whom one choose to worship.

I'm not a hard polytheist. In fact, I'm just as comfortable with the idea that the gods are a pleasant bit of delusional psychobabble that makes me happy as I am with the idea that they are really for real. So...for me, this idea of "my gods are REAL, but yours are FAKE" is quite sophomoric--and seems to be fear masquerading as elitism.

(most of what I've read so far is very anti-PCP, so perhaps I'm experiencing some media bias in terms of whom the underdog is at the moment)

Again here it is. We don't think the same so your an elitist.

[B. de Corbin]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

Again here it is. We don't think the same so your an elitist.

I believe Thalasssa wrote: "So... for me, ..." Which indicates a personal feeling or attitude about the matter, but certainly is NOT indicative the sweeping generalization that all who feel differently are elitists.

Words have meaning - in context. Context matters.

[Dumuzi]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

I've been watching Justice League on Netflix and noticed Green Lantern was black and just heard about Hawk Girl. I was talking to a friend about this, and was like, who's John Stewart (Green Lantern), and he said because the writers felt that they needed cultural diversity (in the original Justice League, Green Lantern was Hal Jordan, who is white) they took out Hal Jordan in place of John Stewart and Hawk Girl is added for more of a balance of male/female ratio. I guess Hawk Girl was originally Hawk Man- like Kwan Yin was originally Avolakiteshvara (Thousand Armed [male] Buddha of Compassion).

OFF TOPIC:

The thing about Green Lanterns is that it's actually a Green Lantern Corps. So you have thousands of Green Lanterns throughout the Universe, not just one. As for the sector of the Universe that Earth belongs to (Sector 2814) there were several Green Lanterns. Hal Jordan, Guy Gardner, John Stewart, Kyle Rayner and recently Simon Baz, just to name a few.

And that's just the GREEN Lantern corps ;-)

[Denarius]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

There's also the old Green Lantern, Alan Scott, the one with the purple cape and green pants. He wasn't in the Corps, at least originally.

[Dumuzi]

Re: (super)hero vs mythic hero

There's also the old Green Lantern, Alan Scott, the one with the purple cape and green pants. He wasn't in the Corps, at least originally.

Yep, that's why I didn't mention him because I was just talking about the corps. Though the point PsykhikosAnarchosNautikos raised still holds true. The most recent Green Lantern, Simon Baz, is a Muslim American. I'm thinking it's related to the whole diversity angle he was talking about.