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    Animism vs Herbalism

    Hey Guys and Gals,
    soooo I've been studying Animism for a while now an whilst discussing the matter with others and researching I have found that many connect it to Necromancy.
    Especially because Animists believe that everything has a soul/spirit (animals, plants etc not just humans) and the fact that they are known to 'harvest' bones from animals, to use them
    for various different 'magickal' reasons. As it is believed that the energies of the animal (that remain in the body parts) will aid in whatever matter they are using them for.
    So in all reality what is happening here, one is using the energy of another being (that happens to be dead) to gain power. After an interesting conversation with Kahlenda on this matter, where
    we were discussing if we thought this was "good" or "bad" Magick to be meddling in, I got to thinking...At first it seemed to be a "bad" thing to be getting into to...But then, as I was playing the
    Devil's Advocate lol, I slowly but surly came to realize that if it was "bad" to harvest animal bones to gain some sort of power...Then I (being an Herbalist) was also "bad" for doing the exact same thing with plants. As I do, myself, believe that everything has a soul/spirit...every plant, every human, every animal etc etc. Then in all reality I am doing nothing else with the plants i harvest...
    I use them to aid me in magickal rituals, I am using their soul/spirit to gain power....And no one would ever believe that Herbalism is something "bad"...So why think doing the same thing with animals
    is a "bad" thing?? This is my question...Why? Because harvesting an animals seems more "gross" then a plant?? Because there is blood involved?? Because animals are able to walk around and make noises and seem to be more alive then plants??? I think not. After looking at it from a different angle I do not believe that it is "bad".
    (then again I don't believe in good or bad Magick anyhow, it all depends on the Intention behind it)
    I believe that it is just another culture that one is either comfortable with or not, and quite respectful to say the least.
    Yet still I am curious to see what other's opinions are Please do tell!
    Many Blessings!

    #2
    Re: Animism vs Herbalism

    I've always believed that plants have spirits, spirit protectors and can be allies/totems, just as much as animals. That being said, most plant spirits actually want to help other organisms. A plant can live and flourish with a minimum of its 'body' left intact, and plants use other creatures to help protect themselves and spread themselves around. They're very symbiotic.

    I'd always ask permission, give thanks and leave an offering whenever I wildcrafted (gathered wild plants) or harvested something out of my own garden or the gardens of others. It was something I saw people do when I was little (my parents had Native American friends), and I've carried it around with me. It's the same when I've hunted or fished - for me, a life's a life and if I take it for personal use I'm going to show respect and gratitude.
    The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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      #3
      Re: Animism vs Herbalism

      My thoughts are very similar to perzephone's. Being respectful no matter the life is important.

      I think, thought, that the reason people get upset over animals when they don't care as much about plants is the same reason why it'd be easier to raise funds for panda rescue than for shark, or even worse, naked mole rat rescue. They aren't as charismatic, as cute, as easily pictured as something desirable in the average person's eyes. Plants, while beautiful, aren't cuddly or cute or charismatic at all, and, as such, are easily dismissed by many.
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        #4
        Re: Animism vs Herbalism

        It all comes down what you are using the animal parts for and how you go about collecting them. If you are trying to bind harmful energies/spirits to the bones to cause harm to others because you can, then that is bad... or just stupid. If you kill and animal or cut a tree for the same reasons- because you can because you just got a machete for the holidays- then this is 'bad' as well. If you collect animal parts, through hunting or exploring an area, for the sake of their beauty or use them fro spells of connection and animal wisdom, then no harm is done. I collect bones, skins (a lizard skin) and feathers whenever I see them just lying around.

        I actually think the act of collecting dead animal parts helps give their death a positive meaning- even dead and grotesque things serve somebody else's life and beauty.

        And like was already said, intention is a big thing as you are dealing with another aspect of life.

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          #5
          Re: Animism vs Herbalism

          Originally posted by perzephone View Post
          I've always believed that plants have spirits, spirit protectors and can be allies/totems, just as much as animals. That being said, most plant spirits actually want to help other organisms.
          Plants can also be vicious motherfuckers and stamp the shit out of any organism that impedes their survival. They're just not usually thought of as doing so; they are usually thought of as defending passively. When, in fact, quite a few have active defences. Make no mistake, they are organisms as much as any other; a plant's first, second, and only goal is to survive and pass on its genes.

          for me, a life's a life and if I take it for personal use I'm going to show respect and gratitude.
          And here I will agree with you. Regardless of if it is a plant or an animal, if it's something I kill and subsequently use, I will pay my respects to it and its spirit. I see nothing wrong with herbalism, nor with using parts of animals for ritual purposes.
          Last edited by Louisvillian; 12 Jun 2013, 23:52.

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            #6
            Re: Animism vs Herbalism

            Originally posted by Louisvillian View Post
            Plants can also be vicious motherfuckers and stamp the shit out of any organism that impedes their survival. They're just not usually thought of as doing so; they are usually thought of as defending passively. When, in fact, quite a few have active defences. Make no mistake, they are organisms as much as any other; a plant's first, second, and only goal is to survive and pass on its genes.
            Which is why I don't mess with acacias.
            The forum member formerly known as perzephone. Or Perze. I've shed a skin.

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              #7
              Re: Animism vs Herbalism

              Or nettles.... which have a long and amazing magical heritage.
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              Phantom Turnips never die.... they just get stewed occasionally....

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                #8
                Re: Animism vs Herbalism

                I'm an animist, and plant souls hold the same significance to me that animal souls do, along with the souls of the land, of stones and of my car and my computer and my staff and drum. This is part of the reason I'm not vegetarian... because it makes no sense to me to hold the life of animal in higher regard than that of a plant.

                I do work more with animal spirits and energies than I do with plant spirits - this is just because I connect with them more easily than I do the greenwights, not because I think they are more important or more powerful. Incidentally I work with stone spirits and energies almost as much as I do with animal spirits and energies. I also use animal parts in my practice, not because of some power that I am harvesting though... more because of the actual spirit that I am working with, or the connection to the grandparent energy.

                I just want to point out that Necromancy is specifically communicating with the spirits of the dead for the purposes of divination or foretelling. If it doesn't involve divination or gaining knowledge of future events then it's not strictly Necromancy and so calling the use of animal parts or even plant parts in magick 'Necromancy' just because they're dead isn't strictly accurate. Also Necromancy is not an inherently 'bad' or 'evil' art - it's just communicating with the dead for divination. There are a lot of practitioners who do it ALL the time, it's just that we don't call it Necromancy in that context. Most mediums could be considered Necromancers, as can most oracular seidhkonur and their male counterparts.

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                  #9
                  Re: Animism vs Herbalism

                  Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                  I just want to point out that Necromancy is specifically communicating with the spirits of the dead for the purposes of divination or foretelling. If it doesn't involve divination or gaining knowledge of future events then it's not strictly Necromancy and so calling the use of animal parts or even plant parts in magick 'Necromancy' just because they're dead isn't strictly accurate. Also Necromancy is not an inherently 'bad' or 'evil' art - it's just communicating with the dead for divination. There are a lot of practitioners who do it ALL the time, it's just that we don't call it Necromancy in that context. Most mediums could be considered Necromancers, as can most oracular seidhkonur and their male counterparts.
                  i was saying the exact thing...i completely agree...necromancy and animism have nothing in common really (unless one is performing divination etc etc)...i was just pointing out that it is a very misunderstood culture... because many people you discuss this with automatically jump to "that's necromancy"....and many people i have spoken to seem to have the opinion that Necromancy is something "bad" to be practicing...both misunderstood cultures i suppose.
                  it does really all depend on what the intention is IMO.

                  - - - Updated - - -

                  Thanks much for the great thoughts on this keep 'em comin' guys
                  glad im not the only one who views it like this lol

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                    #10
                    Re: Animism vs Herbalism

                    As a follower of Shinto I believe everything has a Kami. This means everything is sacred. That said it is the natural way of things for trees to be blown over in a storm and for wolves to prey on fauns. There's nothing wrong with making use of plants and animals for religious purposes. Humans are a part of the natural world.

                    As long as you have a use for them, I'm not overly fond of the concept of bloodsport or cutting down trees for no reason. Kind've goes without saying though doesn't it.

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                      #11
                      Re: Animism vs Herbalism

                      Originally posted by Rae'ya View Post
                      I'm an animist, and plant souls hold the same significance to me that animal souls do, along with the souls of the land, of stones and of my car and my computer and my staff and drum. This is part of the reason I'm not vegetarian... because it makes no sense to me to hold the life of animal in higher regard than that of a plant.
                      I think this is interesting. I've never really thought of it that way. I'm a vegetarian, but mostly because I'm sick of people thinking they are more important than animals, or that some animals are more/less valuable than others.
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                      I have never been across the way
                      Seen the desert and the birds
                      You cut your hair short
                      Like a shush to an insult
                      The world had been yelling
                      Since the day you were born
                      Revolting with anger
                      While it smiled like it was cute
                      That everything was shit.

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