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    Paganism and the Military

    Originally posted by Rick View Post
    Hehehe... most Heathens that I know take great (and loud) exception to being called wiccan. I am included amongst them.

    I've known many witches, I've only ever known one Wiccan, of the Georgian branch.
    Although.........unfortunately, as far as the DoD is concerned for Pagans in the military, we are all considered Wiccan, rather than the other way around.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
    sigpic

    #2
    Re: Help with basic Wiccan/Pagan info please?

    Originally posted by thalassa View Post
    Although.........unfortunately, as far as the DoD is concerned for Pagans in the military, we are all considered Wiccan, rather than the other way around.
    The US military now allows Mjolnirs on military head stones. I have no idea what designations are available for dog tags. Last kinsman of mine who was in the military opted for 'atheist' and seemed to think that the other Heathens that he knew had done the same, to avoid wiccan (or any other misleading designation, for that matter).
    I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

    Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
    Clan of my Clan
    Kin of my Kin
    Blood of my Blood



    For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
    And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Help with basic Wiccan/Pagan info please?

      Originally posted by Rick View Post
      The US military now allows Mjolnirs on military head stones.
      This is extremely cool.
      ThorSon's milkshake brings all the PF girls to the yard - Volcaniclastic

      RIP

      I have never been across the way
      Seen the desert and the birds
      You cut your hair short
      Like a shush to an insult
      The world had been yelling
      Since the day you were born
      Revolting with anger
      While it smiled like it was cute
      That everything was shit.

      - J. Wylder

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Help with basic Wiccan/Pagan info please?

        Originally posted by Rick View Post
        The US military now allows Mjolnirs on military head stones. I have no idea what designations are available for dog tags. Last kinsman of mine who was in the military opted for 'atheist' and seemed to think that the other Heathens that he knew had done the same, to avoid wiccan (or any other misleading designation, for that matter).
        The National Cemetery Administration is under the auspices of the Department of Veteran's Affairs. The VA is a whole 'nother ball game for Pagans than the military...and really, often, more annoying.

        Most non-Wiccan Pagans (including Heathens) that I know (including myself and my husband when we were in) got NORELPREF (for "no religious preference") on their tags. If you know someone that works in the area of Personnel that orders or stamps tags (or you go out and order your own "unofficial" tags and covertly replace them), you could conceivable get tags that said "Pagan" or "Heathen", etc. My last year in, I had tags that said "Pagan", and (since I was a corpsman--aka Navy medic), my medical records have always said Pagan. From what I understand though (at least in the Navy), its much easier today to get something other than the list of 10 or so choices that there were when I joined. There is generally a way to work around stuff, but you usually don't learn about it til you've been in awhile, lol... The Chaplain's manual though, the last time I saw one, was when I stood duty with a UCC (United Church of Christ) Chaplain, and (on finding out I was Pagan) busted his out, and proceeded to question me for several hours on all the ways the durn book had it wrong...granted, they could have updated it....but considering that this event happened in 2008, and the manual in question looked the same as the one published in 1999, I doubt it!
        Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
        sigpic

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Paganism and the Military

          Also, sort of cool, in line with the Mjolnir approval for headstones... The various Druid groups and the Nova Roma also have the paperwork ready to go to assist any families who loose a loved one and would like either an Awen symbol or SPQR (or at least, I think they the Nova Roma decided on the last time I looked into it) to symbolize the faith of their military family member. I'm not sure if most people realize this, but for a new symbol to be approved, it has to be requested for a headstone--someone has to die, and their family have to request it, and do the extra paperwork. And there are some requirements for the symbol itself--it needs to be stylistically conservative, etc.

          I once thought about going through the UU's ministry school and being (one of) the first Pagan military chaplains....the UU is already an accepted endorser of clergy for the DoD, and there are plenty of UU Pagans, so it seems to me to be the path of least resistance to get a Pagan chaplain in the door. Unfortunately (fortunately?), I now have too many (thanks to the military) health problems for them to take me back.
          Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
          sigpic

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            #6
            Re: Paganism and the Military

            Originally posted by thalassa View Post
            I once thought about going through the UU's ministry school and being (one of) the first Pagan military chaplains....the UU is already an accepted endorser of clergy for the DoD, and there are plenty of UU Pagans, so it seems to me to be the path of least resistance to get a Pagan chaplain in the door. Unfortunately (fortunately?), I now have too many (thanks to the military) health problems for them to take me back.
            this was a serious consideration for me at one point before I got out of the military... but it was before I knew what the UU was... now I would have to get a new hip (and hide the scar/paperwork/pain) in order to manage it.
            http://catcrowsnow.blogspot.com/

            But they were doughnuts of darkness. Evil damned doughnuts, tainted by the spawn of darkness.... Which could obviously only be redeemed by passing through the fiery inferno of my digestive tract.
            ~Jim Butcher

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Paganism and the Military

              I didn't know that the UU had a seminary school. awesome! well, Selena Fox and Circle Sanctuary will get somebody into the military as a Pagan chaplain soon enough, it's just a matter of time. and in the mean time my husband says that a lot of the christian chaplains are actually very helpful to pagans and people of different religious affiliations, I mean that is their JOB, not just to service the needs of marines/soldiers etc, whom share their own faith but ALL of the people's spirituals needs. But yes, "Pagan" and "Heathen" etc. should be an option of the dog tags and paperwork not just "Wiccan".

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Paganism and the Military

                Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                Although.........unfortunately, as far as the DoD is concerned for Pagans in the military, we are all considered Wiccan, rather than the other way around.
                Its been awhile since I last looked at the Chaplains Handbook but at the time it listed Wicca then had so many possibilities beneath it that it was no longer possible to be a Wiccan it seemed. Granted that was back around 2000 so I imagine it's been changed some but progress in many ways is so slow in the military that its probably still the same. I do vaguely recall that Shamanism was also listed and had many cross overs with what they called Wicca at the time.

                Still its an advancement over what we had when I joined in 78. At that time we all used No Religious Preference on our dogtags. Usually the only way you could spot us was by what we had in our rooms in the barracks and then it was not often out in the open unless it was like tarot cards or such.

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                Originally posted by thalassa View Post
                The National Cemetery Administration is under the auspices of the Department of Veteran's Affairs. The VA is a whole 'nother ball game for Pagans than the military...and really, often, more annoying.
                Then factor in the National Cemetery Administration is mostly aligned towards federal cemeteries and not the many private or local ones. You can still get the squared military ones from them through the VA but it's also determined which type by the specific cemetery. Many no longer allow the upright stones but require the flat stones of the smaller squared ones which simply indicate service element and birth / death dates.

                .. The Chaplain's manual though, the last time I saw one, was when I stood duty with a UCC (United Church of Christ) Chaplain, and (on finding out I was Pagan) busted his out, and proceeded to question me for several hours on all the ways the durn book had it wrong...granted, they could have updated it....but considering that this event happened in 2008, and the manual in question looked the same as the one published in 1999, I doubt it!
                One of the main problems I saw was there is no so much wrong as to many things that were tied to specific pathways and assumed to be applicable to all. Far to many people claim this or that is wrong but it was obtained as the most open listing of things that might be found within any number of groups. Then a Feri Wiccan would claim things were wrong yet the Alexandrian Wiccan would say theirs was right but the Feri was wrong with the Gardenerian saying both of theirs were wrong while the eclectic was still different from the lineage practices. Figure no one can even come up with a definition of what makes up a "_____" practice today so its unlikely the military Chaplains Handbook would be able to have less than a universal definition that was wrong to many yet correct to others.
                I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Help with basic Wiccan/Pagan info please?

                  Originally posted by Rick View Post
                  The US military now allows Mjolnirs on military head stones. I have no idea what designations are available for dog tags. Last kinsman of mine who was in the military opted for 'atheist' and seemed to think that the other Heathens that he knew had done the same, to avoid wiccan (or any other misleading designation, for that matter).
                  I had a custom set of tags made that said Asatru on them. Also wore my mjolnir on the same chain as my tags.. my S-1 put it on my ERB so cake

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Help with basic Wiccan/Pagan info please?

                    Originally posted by lostsoulwanders View Post
                    I had a custom set of tags made that said Asatru on them. Also wore my mjolnir on the same chain as my tags.. my S-1 put it on my ERB so cake
                    Ewwwwwwwwwwww...you got ERB'd? That really sucks...

                    ...unless, you aren't in the Navy and it means something else. In which case, yay?
                    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
                    sigpic

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Help with basic Wiccan/Pagan info please?

                      I was in the army and ERB stands for Enlisted Records brief so basically it was stated on my official papers

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Paganism and the Military

                        To all here who have served or are active duty, thank you for your service.
                        I often wish that I had done drugs in the '70s. At least there'd be a reason for the flashbacks. - Rick the Runesinger

                        Blood and CountryTribe of my Tribe
                        Clan of my Clan
                        Kin of my Kin
                        Blood of my Blood



                        For the Yule was upon them, the Yule; and they quaffed from the skulls of the slain,
                        And shouted loud oaths in hoarse wit, and long quaffing swore laughing again.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Paganism and the Military

                          Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                          Its been awhile since I last looked at the Chaplains Handbook but at the time it listed Wicca then had so many possibilities beneath it that it was no longer possible to be a Wiccan it seemed. Granted that was back around 2000 so I imagine it's been changed some but progress in many ways is so slow in the military that its probably still the same. I do vaguely recall that Shamanism was also listed and had many cross overs with what they called Wicca at the time.

                          Still its an advancement over what we had when I joined in 78. At that time we all used No Religious Preference on our dogtags. Usually the only way you could spot us was by what we had in our rooms in the barracks and then it was not often out in the open unless it was like tarot cards or such.

                          - - - Updated - - -



                          Then factor in the National Cemetery Administration is mostly aligned towards federal cemeteries and not the many private or local ones. You can still get the squared military ones from them through the VA but it's also determined which type by the specific cemetery. Many no longer allow the upright stones but require the flat stones of the smaller squared ones which simply indicate service element and birth / death dates.



                          One of the main problems I saw was there is no so much wrong as to many things that were tied to specific pathways and assumed to be applicable to all. Far to many people claim this or that is wrong but it was obtained as the most open listing of things that might be found within any number of groups. Then a Feri Wiccan would claim things were wrong yet the Alexandrian Wiccan would say theirs was right but the Feri was wrong with the Gardenerian saying both of theirs were wrong while the eclectic was still different from the lineage practices. Figure no one can even come up with a definition of what makes up a "_____" practice today so its unlikely the military Chaplains Handbook would be able to have less than a universal definition that was wrong to many yet correct to others.
                          Do you mean Feri Tradition or Fairy Wicca? Those are two very different things.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Paganism and the Military

                            Originally posted by Riothamus12 View Post
                            Do you mean Feri Tradition or Fairy Wicca? Those are two very different things.
                            There were no traditions of any sort really. You had Wicca then something like 40 things beneath it that qualified it as Wicca and things that had to be part of it but not inclusive of it. Some where things that many would consider core elements of any Wicca practice at the time, ie three fold law, Rede, BOS, Athame, Cauldron, etc, other's well lets say it wouldn't be reflective of a Gardnerian, Alexandrian or similar lineage coven. Let me put it this way I knew people who were lineage from a Traditional coven and would say "WTF" after reading what their religion was supposed to have entailed. I vaguely recall the disclaimer of most would be feminist in nature as that was the driving force behind Wicca in the late 70's early 80's though a bit of service was given to the earth centered aspect due to the Hippie and Free Love movement of the late 60's and early 70's.

                            Granted most put up with it at the time as it was better than nothing. But many also objected to being Wiccan and their practice identified as Wicca. Shamanic, Afro-Caribbean, Aboriginal or First Nation, Nordic or Teutonic, Heathen, etc didn't matter you were Wiccan. Though mostly you only saw it being used by the Air force and perhaps Army. Navy and Marine Corp. it was known but I don't think I can recall a single person who had it on their dog tags. Most of us were listed as "No Religious Preference" with that holding as late as the mid 1990's if not later.

                            But as I stated it's been many years since I've looked at the Chaplain's Hand Book to see what is there today though I understand from other conversations the recent attempt to reform the Union or Council of Witches group was that they were trying to get it updated. Since that failed I assume getting it updated has failed as well.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            Originally posted by lostsoulwanders View Post
                            I had a custom set of tags made that said Asatru on them. Also wore my mjolnir on the same chain as my tags.. my S-1 put it on my ERB so cake
                            When I first read this all I could think of was Enlisted Re-enlistment Bonus (ERB) paperwork.

                            - - - Updated - - -



                            BASIC BELIEFS: Wiccans worship the sacred as immanent in Nature, often personified as Mother Earth and Father Sky. As polytheists, they may use many other names for Deity. Individuals will often choose Goddesses or Gods from any of the world's pantheons whose stories are particularly inspiring and use those Deities as a focus for personal devotions. Similarly, covens will use particular Deity names as a group focus, and these are often held secret by the groups. It is very important to be aware that Wiccans do not in any way worship or believe in "Satan," "the Devil," or any similar entities. They point out that "Satan" is a symbol of rebellion against and inversion of the Christian and Jewish traditions. Wiccans do not revile the Bible. They simply regard it as one among many of the world's mythic systems, less applicable than some to their core values, but still deserving just as much respect as any of the others. Most Wiccan groups also practice magic, by which they mean the direction and use of "psychic energy," those natural but invisible forces which surround all living things. Some members spell the word "magick," to distinguish it from sleight of hand entertainments. Wiccans employ such means as dance, chant, creative visualization and hypnosis to focus and direct psychic energy for the purpose of healing, protecting and aiding members in various endeavors. Such assistance is also extended to non-members upon request. Many, but not all, Wiccans believe in reincarnation. Some take this as a literal description of what happens to people when they die. For others, it is a symbolic model that helps them deal with the cycles and changes within this life. Neither Reincarnation nor any other literal belief can be used as a test of an individual's validity as a member of the Old Religion. Most groups have a handwritten collection of rituals and lore, known as a Book of Shadows. Part of the religious education of a new member will be to hand copy this book for him or herself. Over they years, as inspiration provides, new material will be added. Normally, access to these books is limited to initiated members of the religion.
                            You'd have to search around to find the actual handbook though it is online as a PDF file in a number of places.

                            - - - Updated - - -

                            GENERAL SOURCE BOOKS

                            The best general survey of the Wiccan and neo-Pagan movement is: Adler, Margot. Drawing Down the Moon. Boston: Beacon Press, 1986. 595pp
                            For more specific information about eclectic Wicca, see: Starhawk. The Spiral Dance. New York: Harper & Row, 1979.
                            For more specific information about traditional Wicca, see: Farrar, Janet, and Stewart Farrar:
                            Eight Sabbats for Witches. London: Robert Hale, 1981. 192pp.
                            The Witches' Way. London: Robert Hale, 1984. 394pp.
                            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                              #15
                              Re: Paganism and the Military

                              1988 I tried for "Heretic" but the tags showed up with "Other" on them *shrug*

                              "No, no, you're not thinking; you're just being logical." -- Niels Bohr

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