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Thread: Forced Sterilization in Prison

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    Nihilistic Goddess Medusa's Avatar
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    Forced Sterilization in Prison

    When, if ever, should forced sterilization in women be allowed? Why do I ask? Apparently in California, some prison officials have been accused of doing this.
    California lawmakers are demanding to know why doctors under contract with the California Department of Corrections and Rehabilitation sterilized nearly 150 female inmates in four years without required state approval and, as some claim, strongly pressured or even tricked some of the women into signing off.
    One doctor even allegedly suggested that the procedures would help the state save on welfare.
    While not part of a formal sterilization program, the surgeries were performed with alarming frequency. At least 148 women in the California prison system were sterilized by tubal ligation without state approval between 2006 and 2010, confirmed Joyce Hayhoe, director of legislation for the California Correctional Health Care Services. The story was first reported by the Center for Investigative Reporting.

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    Now I know most of us want to say NEVER. But let's just throw this out. A woman kills her children. Drowns them and doesn't get a life sentence. Or let's say is found to have munchausen syndrome by proxy. And she's killed, let's say 3 of her children. Is she a candidate for forced sterilization?
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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    Personally, if a woman kills not one, but more of her children... I really don't think she should have more. Obviously she sees children as lesser things... Why cause all the trouble?

    Again, personally... I feel that any person who is caught red-handed in horrible crimes (murder, terrorism, ect) should be killed. Why should we bother keeping them alive when they're just going to do it again?

    Perhaps not after just one murder, sure... But if they pay they sentence, leave, and commit another hard crime... Definitely kill them.

    Those are my thoughts on prisoners. If they can't keep themselves out of trouble, then they shouldn't be given the luxury of people who keep their hands clean. If it means sterilizing women, sure.... But the crime they had committed had better be extreme.



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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    The state should never be allowed to force alterations to the body.

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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Liandrin View Post
    The state should never be allowed to force alterations to the body.
    I totaly agree , to allow a state to decide who can and cannot reproduce is a terrible thing.
    Why not have enforced genital mutilation while we're at it.... No state or human can be trusted with that level of power over people.

    Who would get to decide? Who would be eligible for this mutilation? The sick? " criminals?" because there is not a country that has not redifined any of those things.
    And thas not including those poor people who are innocent but got convicted :/

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    Loud Mouth Heka's Avatar
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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    I think the state should be allowed to decide who can and cannot reproduce.

    This is a bit off topic, but I firmly believe that we should all have a 'license to reproduce'. We get a license to drive by passing a competence test, reproduction should be the same. You should be judged as competent to have a child. At about age 16 every child should be judged as to whether they can have children or not (fertility) as well as any genetic factors that could come to play. And when you decide you want a child, you should be assessed (and your partner, for compatibility) as to whether you can have children. This should avoid those things like childhood pregnancy (there would be fines) and children born to druggo families etc.

    Of course my system isn't perfect, but someone smarter than me can work out the logistics. I just think there should be strict laws on who can reproduce.


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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    Were they sterilized so that guards could rape them without "consequence"?
    And, where is the anti-choice camp on this one? Aren't they covering this issue and making sure no one gets sterilized, ever?

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    The Gaze of the Abyss B. de Corbin's Avatar
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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkfeathers View Post
    And, where is the anti-choice camp on this one?
    I don't know. If I find an anti-choice person, I'll ask them.

    How do the anti-life people feel about the issue? They must be for it, I imagine...

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    Supporter Hawkfeathers's Avatar
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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by B. de Corbin View Post
    I don't know. If I find an anti-choice person, I'll ask them.

    How do the anti-life people feel about the issue? They must be for it, I imagine...

    I can't imagine what the likes of a Charles Manson or Jeffrey Dahmer would think, or why it's relevant. I'm wondering what the people who highly value the fetuses of strangers and wish to bring them all to the point of birth, some of whom wish to prevent the prevention of conception think. (Hope that's understandable wording.)

    Also under consideration - it the woman is serving a life sentence, does it matter? Is the core issue about the possibility of having children in the future, or about having a procedure (in general) mandated?

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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    Quote Originally Posted by Heka View Post
    This is a bit off topic, but I firmly believe that we should all have a 'license to reproduce'. We get a license to drive by passing a competence test, reproduction should be the same. You should be judged as competent to have a child. At about age 16 every child should be judged as to whether they can have children or not (fertility) as well as any genetic factors that could come to play. And when you decide you want a child, you should be assessed (and your partner, for compatibility) as to whether you can have children. This should avoid those things like childhood pregnancy (there would be fines) and children born to druggo families etc.
    Okay, this may be hijacking the thread, and if it does I apologise, but I am incapable of keeping my mouth shut.
    So let me ask, by who's standards? And when's? What makes you a 'good' parent have changed dramatically over the years. Not that long ago not using a, quote, 'firm hand', unquote, when raising your kids was seen as spoiling them completely and thus ruining their chances of ever becoming decent human beings. These days in most of the Western world the opposite is the generally agreed upon policy. Research indicates that one method was no more successful in turning out good caring people than the other one.
    Also, some say that the man of the family should be masculine and adhere to masculine ideals, the woman the opposite, so as to give children a firm idea of the structure of gender roles. Others claim that this practice is damaging to children's development... Seriously I could go on and on on this subject.

    And who should be fined in a case of childhood pregnancy? The girl who gets pregnant? She might not have planned to or even wanted it? The parents? Who may have no control over what their daughter is doing?

    Quote Originally Posted by Heka View Post
    Of course my system isn't perfect, but someone smarter than me can work out the logistics. I just think there should be strict laws on who can reproduce.
    Also, whenever I hear this I get a very cold feeling in my stomach because it sounds so much like the eugenic thinking that was rampant in the 19th century and the first half of the 20th and gave us such lovely things as Nazism, Fascism, Concentration Camps, and WWII. Please understand me correctly, I am not in any way accusing you of having any sympathy for any of these ideologies or advocate these practises, but these are the thoughts that immediately leap into my brain.
    And to be perfectly honest, when I hear about what some women do to their children, have them taken into care and then just have another baby, I too think, 'couldn't someone please stop this madness?'. But then I can't help but remember what happened the last time someone tried to control who could and couldn't have kids. In Denmark we have some lovely examples from the first half of the 1900 where hundreds of young women were forcefully sterilised and all these particular women had ever done was to act... inappropriately according to the then rules of society. Generally that constituted being out late at night, becoming pregnant before getting married (a big no-no in those days) or even just having a boyfriend, or something else that to most of us today would appear completely innocuous. And when I remember this something in me goes, 'no, just no.'
    Because in my opinion, as a society, that would be to high a price to pay.

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    Live and learn anunitu's Avatar
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    Re: Forced Sterilization in Prison

    This very subject was in effect way back by the eugenicists,it in fact caused there to be laws that allowed the forced sterilizing of people for such things as being epileptic. The movement lost favor after the Germans took the concept and ran down the field to getting rid of people they deemed not worthy of life.
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