Edda Discussion: Völuspá

[MoonRaven]

[MoonRaven]

Mim's sons are likely a reference kenning for the gods when taken in this context though it is an odd one since Mim is another name for Mimir, the guy who is only a head, and he is a giant. Once more we are confronted with the blurred distinction of who is a giant and who is a god.
Like the shepard a few verses ago the gods are indulging in playful pursuits when the inevitable occurs Gjallarhorn is sounded, Ragnarok is here.

[The line below are in none of my translation, only the first four. But on the website I found they are, so I have decided to include them here. I am much in doubt on whether or not this is translated correctly since I had to rely entirely on my Old Norse having access to no other translation of them.]

Yggdrasil quakes
the standing ash
it moans in the old tree
and the giant gets loose
All quivers
who walks the road to Hel
but the kin of Surtar
will slay him.

Yggdrasil is possibly another way of saying the whole world. The reason it quakes is because the giant is finally breaks his bonds making most scholars believe that the giant in question here is Loki. Generally, and this doesn't just go for Old Norse mythology but nearly all old myths and stories, natural disasters such as earthquakes, erupting volcanoes and the like, entered into stories about the end of the world. This is probably because event that momentous and unusual was seen as a disruption of the world order and thereby a sing that things were no longer as they should be and as follows a possible sign that the world was coming to an end.
What the last four lines mean I have no idea since I have never seen them before.



It isn't just the gods that are affected by Ragnarok, here the dwarves appear as well. The lines of this verse indicates that the line separating elves and dwarves were possibly a fine distinction for the Old Norse, if it was there at all. And even these beings are afraid, hidden though they are beneath the earth where one might think they would feel safe. Also it is an indication that Ragnarok does not only affect the gods but all the worlds and all people in it.


See verse 44.

[Heka]

51. O'er the sea from the north | there sails a ship
With the people of Hel, | at the helm stands Loki;
After the wolf | do wild men follow,
And with them the brother | of Byleist goes.



52. Surt fares from the south | with the scourge of branches,
The sun of the battle-gods | shone from his sword;
The crags are sundered, | the giant-women sink,
The dead throng Hel-way, | and heaven is cloven.



53. Now comes to Hlin | yet another hurt,
When Othin fares | to fight with the wolf,
And Beli's fair slayer | seeks out Surt,
For there must fall | the joy of Frigg.



54. Then comes Sigfather's | mighty son,
Vithar, to fight | with the foaming wolf;
In the giant's son | does he thrust his sword
Full to the heart: | his father is avenged.



55. Hither there comes | the son of Hlothyn,
The bright snake gapes | to heaven above;
. . . . . . . . . .
Against the serpent | goes Othin's son

[Rae'ya]

51. O'er the sea from the north | there sails a ship
With the people of Hel, | at the helm stands Loki;
After the wolf | do wild men follow,
And with them the brother | of Byleist goes.

Presumably we're talking about Naglifari here, which set sail in the previous stanza. The brother of Byleist in normally translated as 'Loki', but it could equally by the third of Laufey's sons, Hellblindi. I swing more towards that then Loki, because Loki is already at the helm of Nagilfari, so who can he also be with the wildmen following the wolf? Which wolf are we following here? Presumably The Wolf, Fenrir. There is also some dispute as to whether it is the north or the east from which Nagilfari sails, which I think is simply accounted for... scholars can't seem to agree on the actual topography of the Nine Worlds and the way that they are arranged around Yggdrasil. Hence they get pushed and pulled into all sorts of arbitrary postions to line up neatly. Personally, I'm in the camp that experiences them as a sort of spiral. Whether Naglifari is in the north or the east or any other direction depends on which world you are standing in at the time. I've heard that it was built in the ocean between Hellheim and Musspelheim, but I don't think there is anything in the Sagas to say one way or the other.

52. Surt fares from the south | with the scourge of branches,
The sun of the battle-gods | shone from his sword;
The crags are sundered, | the giant-women sink,
The dead throng Hel-way, | and heaven is cloven.

Surt is the ruler of Muspellheim and the 'scourge of brances' is a kenning for fire. Surt does have an enchanted weapon, but it's name (Laevateinn or Haevateinn) means more like 'damage twig' than 'scourge of branches', so that's not what we're talking about here in the first line. It may be what the second line talks about though... but it's disputable wether Leavateinn is a sword or a staff. I'd like to see the Old Norse of this stanza to see if things were changed in this translation.

Hel-way is the Helvegr... the Hel Road which all must travel to get into Hellheim. Apparently the armies of the dead walk out of Helheim as well as sail. It could also mean that the gates of Hellheim are closed and therefore no newly dead can get in, and must therefore mill about on the Helvegr.

53. Now comes to Hlin | yet another hurt,
When Othin fares | to fight with the wolf,
And Beli's fair slayer | seeks out Surt,
For there must fall | the joy of Frigg.

Hlin is usually considered here to be a heiti of Frigg, but Hlin is also a goddess in her own right. One of Frigg's handmaidens, Hlin is said to be the goddess who is set to protect those whom Frigg loves most. With that in mind, Hlin fits in the line as herself, because it was her responsibility to keep Baldr safe, and presumably Frigg would have sent her out with Othinn also. So Othinn's fate would be a hurt upon Hlin as well as Frigg, though for different reasons. The wolf is again, The Wolf... Fenrir, of course. Beli's fair slayer is Freyr, who fights Surt with a set of antlers seeing as he gave his sword away as a bride gift to Gerdh's father. The joy of Frigg is Othinn. So in this passage we see Frey fighting Surt, and Othinn being felled by Fenrir.

54. Then comes Sigfather's | mighty son,
Vithar, to fight | with the foaming wolf;
In the giant's son | does he thrust his sword
Full to the heart: | his father is avenged.

Now we have Othinn's son Vitharr (Sigfather is a heiti of Othinn) fighting with The Wolf and killing him. Thus we have the mighty Fenrir, who Othinn himself could not best, killed by a relatively unknown and unremarkable younger son. Which is a testament to the workings of the Nornir as the more powerful force in the Nine Worlds. The general drift in this section of the poem is pretty much that the great powerful Aesir gods are killed by the Jotnar gods, who are in turn killed by the sons of the dead. This whole thing is not a contest of wisdom, strength and might... the mighty do not slay the weak, the wise are not victorious, the bright do not kill the dark... gods win, die or lose by the decree of the Nornir.

55. Hither there comes | the son of Hlothyn,
The bright snake gapes | to heaven above;
. . . . . . . . . .
Against the serpent | goes Othin's son

Hlothyn is apparently another name for Jorth. And the bright snake is Jormungandr. So here we are talking about Thorr, who goes up against Jormungandr (and is slain in the next verse). There's not much more to say about this stanza.

[MoonRaven]

I'm interested in MoonRaven's assertation that Managarm is the wolf who chases the sun... Managarm means 'Moon Hound' and is thought to be another name for Hati, who chases Mani, not for Skoll, who chases Sol.

See verse 44. (Seriously, this is getting ridiculous.)


Vidar kills Fenris to avenge the death of his father Odin. Not much more to say about this verse except that it reinforces Vidar's connection with vengeance.


(Since verse 55 and 56 is one verse in my editions, and there are quite a few oddities, I'll address it with next weeks batch if that's okay?)

[Heka]

57. The sun turns black, | earth sinks in the sea,
The hot stars down | from heaven are whirled;
Fierce grows the steam | and the life-feeding flame,
Till fire leaps high | about heaven itself.

58. Now Garm howls loud | before Gnipahellir,
The fetters will burst, | and the wolf run free;
Much do I know, | and more can see
Of the fate of the gods, | the mighty in fight.

59. Now do I see | the earth anew
Rise all green | from the waves again;
The cataracts fall, | and the eagle flies,
And fish he catches | beneath the cliffs.

60. The gods in Ithavoll | meet together,
Of the terrible girdler | of earth they talk
And the mighty past | they call to mind,
And the ancient runes | of the Ruler of Gods.

[MoonRaven]

[the worst thing that could happen to one of the Old Norse was if one left behind a bad reputation.]

And for the last time Finally, it was getting ludicrous.
See verse 44.


I have translated the Old Norse word to secrets since that is what it actually means, though the usual translation is to runes

[Heka]

[Rae'ya]

56. In anger smites | the warder of earth,--
Forth from their homes | must all men flee;-
Nine paces fares | the son of Fjorgyn,
And, slain by the serpent, | fearless he sinks.

This stanza is linked with the one before it, regarding the battle between Thorr and Jormungandr, where Thorr is killed. It's pretty self explanatory. As an aside, I don't personally subscribe to the theory that Fjorgyn is another name for Frigg... academics and scholars have always liked to combine deities together into neat little packages, no matter which pantheons they are from. Some of these combinations make very little sense, and this is one of them. I find it a bit unfortunate that many of the academics who studied mythology and provided us with these translations and theories are approaching the texts with no spiritual context at all... and mythology without a spiritual context becomes little more than fairy tales in the minds of the academics. Which gives them the license to make all sorts of 'corrections', changes and connections that aren't necessarily in the spirit of the original stories.

57. The sun turns black, | earth sinks in the sea,
The hot stars down | from heaven are whirled;
Fierce grows the steam | and the life-feeding flame,
Till fire leaps high | about heaven itself.

Again, pretty self explanatory... the end of 'the world' as we know it. The Volva is pretty unspecific regarding whether we are talking about all the worlds here, or just Asgardhr, or just Midgardhr... it would seem to me that we are centered in Asgardhr or Midgardhr throughout this battle, and so does that mean that only these worlds (or one of them) are destroyed and remade? What of the other worlds and the other people?

58. Now Garm howls loud | before Gnipahellir,
The fetters will burst, | and the wolf run free;
Much do I know, | and more can see
Of the fate of the gods, | the mighty in fight.

Repeated refrain stanza. Not much to say lol

59. Now do I see | the earth anew
Rise all green | from the waves again;
The cataracts fall, | and the eagle flies,
And fish he catches | beneath the cliffs.

The rebuilding of the world. These stanzas are all pretty self explanatory... but again, are we talking about all the worlds or just one?

60. The gods in Ithavoll | meet together,
Of the terrible girdler | of earth they talk
And the mighty past | they call to mind,
And the ancient runes | of the Ruler of Gods.

Now the deities that have survived Ragnarok are sitting around reminiscing about old times. At this stage we don't know exactly who survived, although some names are mentioned in the last lot of stanzas. Can we assume that anyone not mentioned by the Volva survived? Or were they just not important enough for her to reveal to Othinn?

And at the end of the day, the crux of this entire poem is 'what is the significance of Ragnarok'? When did or does it occur? Has it happned yet or is it still coming? Is it an actual event that takes place in the Otherworlds or is it a metaphorical telling of the presence of the gods here on our plane of existence? Is it a telling of the rise of Christianity, as some people theorise?

[MoonRaven]

[Heka]

[MoonRaven]

*CoughGardenofEdenCough* Honestly, I could wish for less plagiarism from the Bible, all we need is a lion and a lamb.




Hropt is a heiti for Odin. Nothing further to add.
See my comment for verse 61.

Honir shall chose
the wood (twigs) of fate
and son's of both [brothers]
shall build dwellings there
the wide windhome [the sky]
Do you know enough or what?

that can mean both wood, tree, twig, wand or something made from wood, and hlut which means fate or can refer to cast lots to foretell fate (i.e. divination). So may be one of several things. Some believe that it refers to The World Tree reborn, others that Honir casts wands to see the future,
And where on Earth does the translator get Tveggi as a person from? Tveggja is as far as I know an Old Norse word for 'two', that can also be used in the meaning 'both'.

So... only the kings and their lines survive? I assume the drottnir here refers to humans, for though the Aesir are referred to as rulers at times, it is by the word regin not drottnir, a word seemingly reserved for human rulers.

Then comes the regent
to gain his lordship,
powerful from above
he who rules all
he then judges
and cases abides
the world he sets
as it should be.

Nearly every scholar on this subject you can hunt down will tell you that the whole verse was added later by Christians, to infer that even the ancient Volva's prophecy spoke of the coming of the Christian God. I concur with this hypothesis.

[Heka]

[MoonRaven]

[Heka]