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  • #31
    Re: Heathen Q&A

    [quote author=Maythe link=topic=92.msg2631#msg2631 date=1287080469]
    Personally I don't think Frigg and Freya are the same goddess and I don't recall seeing any decent evidence either, what's the evidence you're talking about Deseret?

    My feeling is the idea pisses them off a bit actually. But that's just my UPG and therefore worthless as 'evidence'.
    [/quote]
    That argument is usually linguistic in basis...that they were the same in Germanic areas, but separate in Norway.
    The name Frigg can be traced back to the Indo-European root prij, love', from which the name Priapus was derived in Asia Minor. While this overlaps into the name and identity of Freya, it is fruitful to pursue the braided linguistic lineage, for it is traceable to the Sanskrit preya, which means 'wife' and 'beloved'. This became Frija in the Old High German, Frea amongst the Lombards, and Frig in the Anglo-Saxon dialects. Among the Germans Freya's name became the title of high-ranking ladies, from which terms like frau and fra were derived. Used as a verb, her name meant 'to woo'. Thus the 'beloved' who is wife and highborn lady is also the lover' who is wooed, a somewhat contradictory package reflecting in a complex linguistic development the intersecting evolution of the two goddesses.
    From a much larger article, here.
    I personally don't agree with it completely, but think that there's an overall point that holds merit.

    When we're talking about Europe, we're talking about an area that up until the Nationalist period had a different dialect for every little valley. I think it's a bad plan to try to break it up, cookie-cutter style, by saying "norse gods", "anglo-saxon gods", "finnish gods", etc....it's a bit more complex then that. That was the point, in the end, that I was trying to make.
    Great Grandmother's Kitchen

    Comment


    • #32
      Re: Heathen Q&A

      Do Heathens keep altars in the manner that Wiccans and Ceremonial mages do?

      If so, are there any specific items that are relatively universal?

      Are there items that other sects might keep on an altar which Heathens would not?
      "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
      ―Thon

      "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

      Yoda

      Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

      Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

      "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

      John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

      "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

      Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


      Comment


      • #33
        Re: Heathen Q&A

        [quote author=Deseret link=topic=92.msg2636#msg2636 date=1287081403]
        That argument is usually linguistic in basis...that they were the same in Germanic areas, but separate in Norway.
        From a much larger article, here.
        I personally don't agree with it completely, but think that there's an overall point that holds merit.

        When we're talking about Europe, we're talking about an area that up until the Nationalist period had a different dialect for every little valley. I think it's a bad plan to try to break it up, cookie-cutter style, by saying "norse gods", "anglo-saxon gods", "finnish gods", etc....it's a bit more complex then that. That was the point, in the end, that I was trying to make.
        [/quote]Hmm I wish that article cited sources. I have to admit to instantly distrusting something put out by the Theosphy Trust... As for your last point, I agree.
        * * *
        You can find some of my creative writing at http://libbyscribbles.com

        Comment


        • #34
          Re: Heathen Q&A

          [quote author=MaskedOne link=topic=92.msg2649#msg2649 date=1287082970]
          Do Heathens keep altars in the manner that Wiccans and Ceremonial mages do?

          If so, are there any specific items that are relatively universal?

          Are there items that other sects might keep on an altar which Heathens would not?
          [/quote]Many heathens do although I think you'll find more recon Heathens don't as there isn't much evidence for house altars in history. Some high status people had temples, and a stone harrow or altar outdoors might be used. I do have an altar. Lots of Heathens will have a hammer on it. Horns and offering bowls would also probably be quite common, images of the gods probably too, maybe personal items related to the ancestors.

          Obviously the trappings of other pagan paths such as wands and athames wouldn't be present.
          * * *
          You can find some of my creative writing at http://libbyscribbles.com

          Comment


          • #35
            Re: Heathen Q&A

            [quote author=Maythe link=topic=92.msg2650#msg2650 date=1287083014]
            Hmm I wish that article cited sources. I have to admit to instantly distrusting something put out by the Theosphy Trust... As for your last point, I agree.
            [/quote]

            I know...it was the best I could pull up on short notice :P I know I've run into better resources before, though...I'll see what I can find later!
            Great Grandmother's Kitchen

            Comment


            • #36
              Re: Heathen Q&A

              Cool, thanks for the info.

              I'm guessing the classical elemental correspondences would not be appropriate.
              "It is not simply enough to know the light…a Jedi must feel the tension between the two sides of the Force…in himself and in the universe."
              ―Thon

              "When to the Force you truly give yourself, all you do expresses the truth of who you are,"

              Yoda

              Yoda told stories, and ate, and cried, and laughed: and the Padawans saw that life itself was a lightsaber in his hands; even in the face of treachery and death and hopes gone cold, he burned like a candle in the darkness. Like a star shining in the black eternity of space.

              Yoda: Dark Rendezvous

              "But those men who know anything at all about the Light also know that there is a fierceness to its power, like the bare sword of the law, or the white burning of the sun." Suddenly his voice sounded to Will very strong, and very Welsh. "At the very heart, that is. Other things, like humanity, and mercy, and charity, that most good men hold more precious than all else, they do not come first for the Light. Oh, sometimes they are there; often, indeed. But in the very long run the concern of you people is with the absolute good, ahead of all else..."

              John Rowlands, The Grey King by Susan Cooper

              "You come from the Lord Adam and the Lady Eve", said Aslan. "And that is both honour enough to erect the head of the poorest beggar, and shame enough to bow the shoulders of the greatest emperor on earth; be content."

              Aslan, Prince Caspian by CS Lewis


              Comment


              • #37
                Re: Heathen Q&A

                Yeah, since we aren't nature based, classical elements don't really have a place with us. The fact that the classical elements are from a completely different culture also makes them less than suitable. I've seen somewhere, may have been here, where somebody argued that the"classical elements"of the norse were basically fire and ice, but I don't think that has much basis in tradition. Some also use the four dwarves who hold up the sky, Nordi, Sudri, Austri, and Vestri, in a circle in the same sort of circular arrangement as wards, although I'm pretty sure that's modern in origin as well.

                About as close to nature as we get are the land wights, which are basically the spirits of the land. Piss 'em off and you're in for a world of hurt. In fact, the one actual curse I know of involves raising the land wights against the person that lives on the same land as them. I don't know of anyone that's actually done it though, it involves fluency in the runes (not the hard part) and the decapitation of a horse, which is likely the part that's difficult to explain to...well...basically anyone that asks.
                "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
                -Thomas Jefferson

                Let a man never stir on his road a step
                without his weapons of war;
                for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
                of a spear on the way without.
                -Hávamál

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: Heathen Q&A

                  you speak of the Nidstang.
                  "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Re: Heathen Q&A

                    Yep. Can you recall anyone actually performing a proper nidstang in recent memory, TS? I can't, personally. Considering the implications of nidstang and the effort required to carry it out, plus the legal issues you would probably run into what with the involvement of the horse, you would have to be so far beyond pissed off that you'd probably have a damn stroke before you got halfway through carving the pole...
                    "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
                    -Thomas Jefferson

                    Let a man never stir on his road a step
                    without his weapons of war;
                    for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
                    of a spear on the way without.
                    -Hávamál

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Re: Heathen Q&A

                      [quote author=Thjoth link=topic=92.msg2717#msg2717 date=1287089671]
                      Yep. Can you recall anyone actually performing a proper nidstang in recent memory, TS? I can't, personally. Considering the implications of nidstang and the effort required to carry it out, plus the legal issues you would probably run into what with the involvement of the horse, you would have to be so far beyond pissed off that you'd probably have a damn stroke before you got halfway through carving the pole...
                      [/quote]

                      I do not. I know of people who have performed what they called a nidstang, but I also know the methods and procedures that they used and, while one of them struck me as an extremely brutal curse, I can't say that any of them came anywhere near the level of a nidstang.
                      "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Re: Heathen Q&A

                        Hmm, interesting. I guess a full blown nidstang would probably make the news, or at least we would hear about it in the community pretty quickly...

                        Anyway, sorry, accidentally took the thread in an extremely macabre direction there. Rest assured that we don't make a habit of cursing people, especially not with something like this. A lot of heathens don't like to even talk about it in direct terms in case some idiot kills somebody trying to do it, but I figure the instructions are all over the internet anyway so that particular cat has been out of the bag for a while...
                        "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
                        -Thomas Jefferson

                        Let a man never stir on his road a step
                        without his weapons of war;
                        for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
                        of a spear on the way without.
                        -Hávamál

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Re: Heathen Q&A

                          I have actually witnessed a Nidhstang. In lieu of an actual horse the person performing the ritual poured his blood and sweat into crafting a horse head out of wood.
                          "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

                          "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Re: Heathen Q&A

                            [quote author=Crimson Horizons link=topic=92.msg2736#msg2736 date=1287092361]
                            I have actually witnessed a Nidhstang. In lieu of an actual horse the person performing the ritual poured his blood and sweat into crafting a horse head out of wood.
                            [/quote]

                            I forgot about that one... although I wasn't present for it.
                            "Don't ever miss a good opportunity to shut up." - Harvey Davis "Gramps"

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Re: Heathen Q&A

                              [quote author=ThorsSon link=topic=92.msg2746#msg2746 date=1287093777]
                              I forgot about that one... although I wasn't present for it.
                              [/quote]

                              It's not an experience I wish to repeat, however it needed to be done.
                              "The proper office of a friend is to side with you when you are in the wrong. Nearly anybody will side with you when you are in the right."--Mark Twain

                              "There are only two types of people in this world who walk around beardless; boys and women. I am neither one." --Ancient Greek saying

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Re: Heathen Q&A

                                I probably don't want to know what the person on the receiving end of that did to deserve it. Although the potency was probably somewhat reduced due to the lack of an actual horse head, that's like saying that Hiroshima wasn't that bad because it wasn't one of our modern warheads...it's a little moot once it gets to that point.
                                "Rightful liberty is unobstructed action according to our will within limits drawn around us by the equal rights of others."
                                -Thomas Jefferson

                                Let a man never stir on his road a step
                                without his weapons of war;
                                for unsure is the knowing when the need shall arise
                                of a spear on the way without.
                                -Hávamál

                                Comment

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