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    Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

    Is it possible to control weather by the use of magick?I would really like some input into this as I will explain later in the thread why I am asking.
    silly old man

    #2
    Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

    No, I don't think so....in my observation and experience, I've seen plenty of people claim to be able to do so, but mostly its BS. In the few people that I know well enough to think there might be something to their claim, they would never say that they controlled the weather, more that they...influenced it just a little bit. And even then, there is an ethics to it...weather is very touchy--there are so many variables, that minute changes can be catastrophic down the line.

    Weather patterns just don't work in such a way to be controlled by a person or persons--it comes down to the too many variables thing. People don't have the ability to precisely act on that many things over the huge areas involved with purpose and intention. Perhaps, if conditions are favorable, someone might be able to nudge the skies to rain if the possibility is already there...but at that point, it might have rained anyhow and its hard to say how much might have been magic vs coincidence.
    Wonderful Life: The Burgess Shale and the Nature of HistoryPagan Devotionals, because the wind and the rain is our Bible
    sigpic

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      #3
      Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

      I agree with Thal, really to control the weather, actually control it, you would have to do so on a global scale. It's just too much for a person to handle. however like Thal said influencing it is ifinetly easier. but working out weather you influenced it or it was just coincedence is that hard part. a good example was a small spell i used to use when i knew it was about to rain to hold off untill i got inside (my house school, work, ect.) and it worked, it would always hold off till a few secs after i got into where i was going (used to be brilliant for my paper rounds) but was it magickal influence or just coincidence, personally it happened waaaay to often for me to think it was just coincidence but i can't prove it either way.

      i think weather in itself is a very dangerous thing to mess with aswell, (this is just my opinion) because its such an intricate system across the whole globe. like you could build a machine to cause a massive drop in air temperature in the south west atlantic, and i could/would cause a storm for south USA, so yeah personally i dont think playing with the weather is the best idea. then there's ethical and moral considerations when it comes to the "good or evil" debate. weather is so intrinsically linked and connected to life on this world that a small change here or there has huge ramifacations, here's an example i used on another thread.

      its a dry season, crops are dying and you conduct a rain spell, theres a massive down pour that effectivly ends the wet season the crops are well watered and grow magnificently everyone in the town village whatever eats happily and healthly, a sick child even gets better from plenty of water and plenty of food. That massive rain pour forced all the worms and other underground creatures to come above ground those that didnt make it drown those that did were eaten by birds or other creatures, and some were lucky enough to survive to get back to the ground.

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        #4
        Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

        I'll be the dissenting voice here. In my experience, yes, you can. To an extent. And there are repercussions when changes are made because that weather still has to come from/go somewhere.

        Now the how if it is the same as ANY magical working, you're just manipulating energy. And like any magical working your success is dependent on your skill. The thing few people realize is that skill is in no way limited to the caster's ability with energy manipulation. Actually that's one of the more minor aspects of magical working (though it is crucial). What can really make or break a working is the ability to see and account for other energetic variables. Only then can you really craft an effective spell to get a desired result. If you want me to post a link to the hows of general spell working, I can.

        Back to weather working. Working on a small scale isn't too hard as these things go. But the bigger you get the more difficult it is to account for all the variables, and with the weather there are PLENTY even on the small scale. An example of a small scale weather working I did was for my Dojo. We were having an outdoor seminar. It was summer so the weather SHOULD have been fine, but it decided to start raining. So I cleared the sky over the park we were in and for a couple blocks around us (there was a very obvious line between rain and no rain). Something that small scale isn't going to do much in the overall scheme of weather patterns. But if you call rain for a dry field, remember that the rain has to come from somewhere.
        "The doer alone learneth." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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          #5
          Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

          I tend to think we may control weather in a limited aspect but that is it. Yet even then one has to wonder if their need is worthwhile. To hold off a weather event because you want to have a ceremony or ritual to me is hubris in that you do not know what it will do to the other lifeforms that relied upon that limited amount of rain / snow / etc that you directed elsewhere or prevented all together. Nor does it truly consider all the dynamic that go into making a weather event and how even a minor influence can change things with a catastrophic side affect / effect. Sort of the notion of the butterfly affect / effect upon weather all over the world. I've seen people who complain and say they changed highland weather as they were getting flooded but ignored those very floods is what caused fertility to lands downstream of there and influenced the very hydrological cycle of the landscape by supposedly doing so. Wind changes and such that might be associated to more major wind based storms if one accepts their perspective they did cause a change.

          I do find it strange that one does not hear of to many weather wizards and such in nearly any of the lore I am familiar with. The worst seems to be the weather witches who could call or whistle up a storm far out to sea. But a lot of that seems to appear later in the mythologies vice the more archaic mythologies.
          I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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            #6
            Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

            Well... Yes and No. You cannot "control" weather. When people think of weather they usually think of the things happening near them. People don't realize how utterly enormous weather is. Then where do those systems originate? It's something people seldom think about. A single practitioner enticing the hundreds of miles of water into clouds then directing them and resisting the influence of opposing weather systems to bring rain? No one has that much power or simple mental capacity to control so many different parts over such large distances. Once there's an established system nearby then it's significantly easier to manipulate. Storms especially are masses of turbulent energy just churning in the atmosphere.

            However you really really really shouldn't. Air is an inherently chaotic element but it is not chaos without purpose. It is also in that chaos that small differences cause drastic changes. The established weather patterns have effected the regions they influence for decades by moving water vapor or changing temperature you could have huge unintended consequences hundreds of miles away.
            Circe

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              #7
              Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

              Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
              To hold off a weather event because you want to have a ceremony or ritual to me is hubris in that you do not know what it will do to the other lifeforms that relied upon that limited amount of rain / snow / etc that you directed elsewhere or prevented all together.
              I'll leave the hubris aspect for the other thread. But if one uses such broad "what ifs" as a reason not to engage in a working, then who would ever use magic?

              While I would certainly hope a worker gives their intended spell due consideration for how it works and what the repercussions are likely to be, magic is not a safe thing. And no matter how careful, things will go wrong at time point and people will fall on their noses. This is just the nature of life in general as there is never a guarantee.
              "The doer alone learneth." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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                #8
                Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

                Originally posted by Vigdisdotter View Post
                I'll leave the hubris aspect for the other thread. But if one uses such broad "what ifs" as a reason not to engage in a working, then who would ever use magic?

                While I would certainly hope a worker gives their intended spell due consideration for how it works and what the repercussions are likely to be, magic is not a safe thing. And no matter how careful, things will go wrong at time point and people will fall on their noses. This is just the nature of life in general as there is never a guarantee.

                I didn't say not to do a working I said if you have to control or change the weather its hubris, especially so in most instances.. At best it seems to suggest poor planning as the weather is fairly predictable and not that difficult to work around and still have a good or excellent ritual / ceremony. Never said or suggested magic is safe as no amount of planning or anticipation can foresee everything but weather is fairly easy to predict and work around.
                I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                  #9
                  Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

                  Siding with Vigdisdotter on this one. Yes it can be done, but needs to be done honorably of course, like any other magic out there. Shamanic types tend to work with that sort of thing. I always grin when I hear skeptics say it's BS - those people make my job easier. Yes, please ignore the crazy person! Totally not going to make it rain cats and dogs or anything, just harmlessly insane. Innocent whistle~! Wink wink! ;D

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                    #10
                    Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

                    Originally posted by RainbowDemonic View Post
                    Siding with Vigdisdotter on this one. Yes it can be done, but needs to be done honorably of course, like any other magic out there. Shamanic types tend to work with that sort of thing. I always grin when I hear skeptics say it's BS - those people make my job easier. Yes, please ignore the crazy person! Totally not going to make it rain cats and dogs or anything, just harmlessly insane. Innocent whistle~! Wink wink! ;D
                    All I'll say is there are a lot of plastic shaman and neo-shaman who praise that position but go ask a first nation or aboriginal medicine type people and they tell you you don't mess with the weather. To many other people's that get screwed over because of it and then your allies tend to strike back at you. Not referring to human allies either here.
                    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                      #11
                      Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

                      Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                      I didn't say not to do a working I said if you have to control or change the weather its hubris, especially so in most instances.
                      Hubris, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Or more speficially the framework of their particular spirituality. As such, no one is bound to anyone's idea of hubris but their own. So I'm not going to argue that point.

                      Rather, it seems to me that you are using scare tactics to try and get people to avoid something you disapproved of. And I can't agree with that.

                      Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                      At best it seems to suggest poor planning as the weather is fairly predictable and not that difficult to work around and still have a good or excellent ritual / ceremony.
                      *laughs* come to my town. The joke of "if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes" is all too true. As for working around the weather, good luck keeping your footing on wet grass. We don't wear cleats during martial arts practice. And when trying to get 20+ people and a guest instructor together, it takes months of advanced planning.

                      Don't be so quick to assume that a weather working is done out of convenience. Like any working, it takes a lot of energy/effort. If we'd been able to use inside facilities, I wouldn't have bothered with a spell.
                      "The doer alone learneth." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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                        #12
                        Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

                        Originally posted by Vigdisdotter View Post
                        Hubris, like beauty, is in the eye of the beholder. Or more speficially the framework of their particular spirituality. As such, no one is bound to anyone's idea of hubris but their own. So I'm not going to argue that point.
                        I don't disagree that hubris is very much in the eye of the beholder or the spiritual framework one works within. Not saying you have to change only saying how it appears to me.

                        Rather, it seems to me that you are using scare tactics to try and get people to avoid something you disapproved of. And I can't agree with that.
                        Nope only speaking from my perspective and how I view things. If it scares then that is a different issue I suppose.

                        *laughs* come to my town. The joke of "if you don't like the weather, wait five minutes" is all too true. As for working around the weather, good luck keeping your footing on wet grass. We don't wear cleats during martial arts practice. And when trying to get 20+ people and a guest instructor together, it takes months of advanced planning.
                        Sorry still sounds like poor planning. Been to many of those type places myself where it changes by the half-hour but proper planning still allows one to anticipate the routine weather events and plan accordingly. Fog so thick you can't see your hand in front of your face to rains that come in sideways one minute then completely reverse course the next second due to updrafts and down drafts through the mountains.

                        Don't be so quick to assume that a weather working is done out of convenience. Like any working, it takes a lot of energy/effort. If we'd been able to use inside facilities, I wouldn't have bothered with a spell.
                        Again back to planning. Sorry have had 80 plus kids on events and had to plan for extremes like that all the time within scouting or other such outings. All goes back to planning even when the event takes months to plan and lay things out. Didn't matter whether it was a summer event or deep winter event.

                        As to energy / effort that I do agree with.
                        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                          #13
                          Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

                          I think that it is possible to influence the weather to an extent, though I wouldn't go so far as to say that a person would have full control. I think there is enough anecdotal evidence to suggest that a skilled weather-worker can at least influence the weather in small ways with relative ease. We all seem to be singing the same song about the complexity of weather patterns and the myriad factors that play into a particular weather event. A successful large scale weather-working would require either strong relationships with the weather spirits, or a good understanding of weather phenomenon and energy. Little things like holding off the rain for a few minutes is often put down to the whim of the active rain spirits, who will often ebb and flow at the request of people who acknowledge them in some way. Holding off the rain altogether is quite a different sort of weather-working, which has an entirely different set of ripple effects. Then we look at things like people who claim to turn aside hurricanes...

                          Perhaps the more relevant question is SHOULD we control or influence the weather? That seems to be the dissenting factor in the thread thus far.

                          I have heard people argue that working with weather spirits to change the weather is more ethical than working the energies themselves. The argument being that the weather spirits will compensate for any changes to other areas, and ensure that no ill effects come from your changes. I'm not entirely sold on that idea myself, because I don't believe that the weather spirits have humanity's best interests at heart. They work with the land spirits to ensure what's best for the land on a long term scale, not what's best for the next town over. Turning aside a hurricane may save your town, but destroy the next and kill hundreds of people in the process. It seems to me that leaving that decision up to the weather spirits is simply blame-shifting.

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                            #14
                            Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

                            Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                            Sorry still sounds like poor planning.
                            And unless you have a very big living room (with very high ceilings) indoor facilities cost money.

                            I suppose you think we should have jacked up the attendance cost for a summer time seminar because it MIGHT rain? We planned it so that we could keep costs low to encourage attendance.

                            You're really making a lot of assumptions about people and situations you know nothing about.
                            "The doer alone learneth." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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                              #15
                              Re: Controlling the weather through the use of magick.

                              Originally posted by Vigdisdotter View Post
                              And unless you have a very big living room (with very high ceilings) indoor facilities cost money.

                              I suppose you think we should have jacked up the attendance cost for a summer time seminar because it MIGHT rain? We planned it so that we could keep costs low to encourage attendance.

                              You're really making a lot of assumptions about people and situations you know nothing about.
                              Nope only looking at the justification against what I've done in the past and how the justification still doesn't fit. But this is a dead horse so i'll just let it go
                              I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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