Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

[ethelwulf]

I wondered what other people thought about thereason why paganism was lost in medieval Europe. Paganism dominated Europe until the MiddleAges where it was systematically wiped of the Earth with the exception of somefamily traditions which weathered the attack and the writings of Christians whopreserved what little we have of pagan beliefs.

[Gleb]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

I think that's because those (old) Christians and Muslims wanted to spread their religion all over the world.
Thus, paganism lost it's rating. For instance Muhamad's journies whose aim was to spread the Islam. (it's only my opinion that is based on history lessons)

[DanieMarie]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

I think there were a lot of reasons.

[anunitu]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

When Constantine brought Christianity into the part as a state religion,it became mandatory to belong. It might have stayed a small "Cult" had he not taken it to a different state. There is some thought that Christian belief was on the verge of dieing out before this.

[Malflick]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

When Constantine brought Christianity into the part as a state religion,it became mandatory to belong. It might have stayed a small "Cult" had he not taken it to a different state. There is some thought that Christian belief was on the verge of dieing out before this.

Under Constantine Christianity and Paganism were both considered valid religions, and it was a period of quite a lot of interfaith harmony. However, after the (Pagan) Emperor Julian's disastrous campaign against the Persians, the Christian Emperor Theodosius made Christianity mandatory, and really did all the nasty stuff Constantine gets blamed for by association (Theodosius was the one who closed the temples and such).

Christian belief probably wouldn't have died out, but it would have remained a religion of the uneducated poor, and probably utterly different then we think of it today.

[anunitu]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

I have read that Constantine did retain his pagan beliefs along with his new Christian ones. Also thank you mal for your input on the matter.

[Kahlenda]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

I would say the main points have all already been brought up in this thread you just need to re order them and shine a light on them.

1) christianity was made the main religeon of rome and by proxy the roman empire.

even in the last two centuries we have seen the evidence, when a strong empire (the british, french, german or roman) conquers an area the british colonists did all over the world the uncivilised and primative culture of the locals is forcefully obliterated while the religeon of the conqeurers is given presidence.

2) a strong hierachy with respect towards leaders

theres a reason this is how the military work. it is extreamly efficient. with one united voice and power of will you can direct resources where they are need, with one overall head the entire picture is seen not just a local one.

3) Rich People wanting to be special.

It was the new FAD, something that was different and crazy. so let do it for a laugh and then before you know it, its got bigger and bigger and stronger and stronger. and suddenly its everywhere

[Tylluan Penry]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

Firstly - we really need to work out what we're describing as the Middle Ages. I don't think Constantine lived during any medieval period that I would recognise.

And secondly - colonialism works by a combination of at least subjugation, rebellion and fusion of the indigenous and invasive cultures. It's never as simple as just 'crushing' what they replaced. Often they didn't replace it all that successfully anyway.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

I think Christianity gets a bad rap in many cases. Especially given that a lot of evidence suggests something else.

Lets look at Artemis and Ephesus for instance. By the 2nd century one see's a considerable fall off on the maintenance and / or new construction of building projects through out the city and surrounding area. Projects that prior to that had been seen almost as both a public duty but also a personal duty and displays of personal wealth and power. Figure that many major families held both political and social positions, even to the point of many later Roman families marrying into once powerful Greek or Ionian families. The more powerful the more buildings one has commissoned and maintained the more places their name is enscribed in the public eye. Personal wealth takes a change in regards to how one builds things to honor and make them appear more powerful in public. Instead there is a significant shift towards personal gratification via large estates, personal retreats, etc. Wealth no longer seen via the construction of public things but development of personal glorification.

By the early part of the 5th century support of the temples, shrines, sanctuaries is basically gone and the temple's are collapsing under their own decay, not to be rebuilt or abandoned. Economic changes also cause a significant re-distribution of wealth and the Empire's collection of taxes and support of various systems. This would also coincide with the change in economic and personal support by the powerful families causing a change in the stratification of social and cultural importance. Many former temples, shrines, sanctuaries stripped of their building material for other construction projects, either by need or by design.

I think one also has to consider the notion of many Pagan practices were not as universal as many try to paint or imply they were today. Many were very much driven by local influences and when the gods / goddesses failed to protect they were abandoned. Again considering Ephesus and Artemis, we find it to be because of invading armies from the East and North which over ran a lot of areas. Natural disaster which we know occurred in a major way during the 2nd century and later due to earthquakes or silting of the river causing the harbor to move.

One aspect often ignored I think also tends to fall upon the vanity of the more powerful. Many later temples, shrines and sanctuaries were dedicated to both a god / goddess and a sitting Emperor. AS the Emperor's change and political turmoil occurs so to does support or punishment to various spiritual / religious places. Ephesus having periods where it is exempt to taxes by one Emperor then heavily taxed by another mostly due to the wealth of the city and its populace not the religious importance of its Temple.

Not to say Christianity didn't play a part but that it as a whole did not cause change as much as many try to suggest. In many ways it seems that it (Paganism) fell due to a reading of the signs and omens and a disfavor from the gods / goddesses upon the land and people. I personally tend to think part also derives from the fact that Christianity adopted many aspects that appealed to the common people or came to modify them. Then the early church had so many different forms of Christianity that it would be years after before they decide what will be included and acknowledged as Christianity and what is dropped.

[Claude]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

There's this great book I recently finished called The Closing of the Western Mind by Charles Freeman that explains the rise of Christianity and the fall of paganism in great detail.

It really comes down to three factors: politics, culture and war. The Roman Empire had fought many years against the rise of Christianity. Emperor after emperor passed legislation authorizing governors to wipe out entire communities. However this created some backlash and the Christians found themselves in the arms of sympathetic politicians. These politicians refused to execute them and in some cases even exempted them from taxes.

Later on the Emperor Constantine would sign the Edict of Milan which officially recognized Christianity as a valid religion. But interestingly enough there is abundant proof showing that Constantine did not understand nor want to understand the Christian faith. He realized by mixing Christian and imperial symbols he could forge a new unity throughout the empire. This idea wasn't revolutionary. After all the emperor had been using pagan symbols (the sun) on official documents and representations since the time of Augustus.

Fast forward a few more years and a divide appears in Christianity. Before each community was allowed to practice and believe as they pleased. Constantine with his Edict changed that. Now that Christianity was a state religion and a tool of the emperor's power it need to be consolidated. This is where you the dozens of councils called in North Africa, Asia Minor and Greece. The main divide was between the Arians and the Homoeans. This debate centered around the divinity of Christ and was solved when Constantine forced a solution thereby creating the idea of the Holy Trinity. This move also solidified the power of the emperor over the early church.

More laws were passed by Constantine and other emperors that gave Christians and Christian owned land tax exemption. Of course the catch was that this law really only applied to the clergy and extremely wealthy. At the same time in the spirit of Constantine emperors were building churches. They would through up huge marble structures and have frescoes of themselves painted by Jesus or Jesus petting a lion while carrying the imperial standard. The idea is obvious. If I put my face next to these peoples' god then they will connect us and support me. Once again emperors had been doing this in pagan temples since Augustus. Well this led to a concentration of wealth in the clergy. Now bishops were just as powerful as politicians in most areas.

Keep going through time the and more things of the like happen. Eventually you get a few crazies like Theodosius the "Great" (jk he was an ass) who took it upon themselves to actually illegalize paganism. By doing so he basically proscripted every pagan by removing them from protection under the law.

If Constantine hadn't passed his Edict of Milan Rome probably would have fallen apart before Christianity was able to spread so far. The Roman infrastructure and legal system provided the perfect conditions for Christians to expand to a wider audience. Not to mention the fact that Constantine was the one who truly united the church. Before that they were all just crazy peasants living in mud huts in the middle of the desert. At the same time I think Christianity was destined to expand in the Eastern Empire regardless of Constantine simply because of geography.

I do have disagree with parts of the above post because despite paganism being fragmented it was united by one common thing the Imperial Cult. The Imperial Cult allowed for a cultural unification that was readily accepted by the vast majority of people living under Roman rule. Also Rome's policy on adopting foreign cults as part of the state religion only furthered this. Instead of taking over a land and proclaiming the supremacy of their own gods the Romans allowed natives to worship much like they had before. The only real change to their religious life was that they were expected to participate in the Imperial Cult. This is where the Jews and Christians ran into trouble. They refused to worship the emperor's Gens and as a result they were seen as traitors to the Empire.

Although I do agree that the hot and cold taxes put in place by the emperors affected the stability of certain religious sites overall the impact would have been minor. Paganism in all its forms was alive and well throughout the empire even at that time. There was actually an increase in pilgrims travelling to Delphi up until Theodosius closed the temple. So saying a blanket statement like paganism was in decline because of disinterest really isn't correct.

[Corvus]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

With the theme I'm using your text is practically illegible OP. I have nothing much else to contribute to the thread other than what has been said. The decline of paganism was occurring before the fall of Rome as Christianity became more widespread. The major breakthrough for Christianity came when Emporer Flavius Valerius Aurelius Constantinus Augustus legalized Christianity and converted to it. Seeing their emperor announce he was Christian made many Romans convert. In other ways Christianity was appealing to citizens. The Roman deities were viewed as very impersonal and their worship was more political where as the Christian god was a personal deity who cared for each individual that prayed. By the end of the early middle ages Christianity was likely the most popular religion in Europe. The many conflicts, both political and natural, served to rally the people behind the church giving them further political power, because in times of hardship people flock to religion. With this political power persecutions against Pagans, Jews and Muslims living in Europe became common and many rulers engaged in wholesale slaughter of non-Christians. Furthermore many formerly pagan kings found it politically advantageous to publicly convert to Christianity, for various reasons.

It is important to note that pagan practices and cults would continue activity in secret for centuries after the fall of Rome and well after the middle ages.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

.. I do have disagree with parts of the above post because despite paganism being fragmented it was united by one common thing the Imperial Cult. The Imperial Cult allowed for a cultural unification that was readily accepted by the vast majority of people living under Roman rule. Also Rome's policy on adopting foreign cults as part of the state religion only furthered this. Instead of taking over a land and proclaiming the supremacy of their own gods the Romans allowed natives to worship much like they had before. The only real change to their religious life was that they were expected to participate in the Imperial Cult. This is where the Jews and Christians ran into trouble. They refused to worship the emperor's Gens and as a result they were seen as traitors to the Empire.

Although I do agree that the hot and cold taxes put in place by the emperors affected the stability of certain religious sites overall the impact would have been minor. Paganism in all its forms was alive and well throughout the empire even at that time. There was actually an increase in pilgrims travelling to Delphi up until Theodosius closed the temple. So saying a blanket statement like paganism was in decline because of disinterest really isn't correct.

If I define Paganism under the usage today of it being a religion then I agree with your position, yet I tend to view it's usage against the time which places paganism as country dweller which removes it from many of the expectations of Rome and the Imperial Cult concept in many ways. As such the Emperor is viewed equally to the gods / goddesses for his divine status hence the inclusion into many temples, shrines and sanctuaries. Yet in many ways that was lip service vice and actual recognition of the Emperor's divine statues outside of Rome. Especially when one considers the monies paid to the emperor by said cult centers, temples, shrines and sanctuaries. Consider the Rex Nemorensis who is later transported outside of Aricia and back to Greece to the temple at Orthia, yet prior to that he is equated to at least one emperor family.

Yet historical evidence shows most temples and such were in decline and experiencing a significant loss of donations and offerings from about the 2nd century onward until they pretty much fail completely by the 5th century. Such loss that in many areas dedications, ceremonies and rituals usually paid for by local citizens had to be picked up by the temples themselves which further degraded their stability and status. The very inscriptions and donation / support inscriptions drop by half if not more and seldom match in content or numbers of participants from even one hundred years earlier if there are even inscriptions to be found.

But for me it is an issue of how one is defining "Paganism" as to it being a religious practice or a country dwellers social and cultural practices that include their own cults or even the cultus practices to be found within their own legions such as Mithraism which also vanishes about the 5th century but is debatable as to it being paganism.

[Kahlenda]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

And secondly - colonialism works by a combination of at least subjugation, rebellion and fusion of the indigenous and invasive cultures. It's never as simple as just 'crushing' what they replaced. Often they didn't replace it all that successfully anyway.

Which is why christian holidays coincide with pagan one's and why many of the catholic/christian saints are former pagan gods and/or mythical heroes

[Malflick]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

Which is why christian holidays coincide with pagan one's and why many of the catholic/christian saints are former pagan gods and/or mythical heroes

1. Yes, we stole all your holidays.

2.... No. That is just flat out not true. I feel like I've typed up that explanation too many times, though I will again if I need to, but the Saints were all real people, or occasionally Biblical angels.... But not former pagan Gods.

- - - Updated - - -

also, Monso_Leedra has his history down super well. I'll just nodd at most of what he posted!

[Corvus]

Re: Why did paganism collapse in the medieval period?

many of the catholic/christian saints are former pagan gods and/or mythical heroes

Can you name one such saint? I know of no saint which coincides with any pagan divinity outside of the Lwa, and even then that connection was made afterward. I'm just curious because I've never heard of it before.