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    #16
    Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

    Originally posted by Gardenia View Post
    I think part of the problem here, is that there might be a misunderstanding of what dark means to the different people using it. Many people I've met who use dark to describe something don't also mean evil, which you keep using as a follow-up to dark. Nor do they think that a dark deity can only have dark associations. For example, I would think Anubis could very easily be described as dark, because he is very heavily associated with funerary functions, such as embalming, tombs, protection of the dead, leading the dead through the underworld, judgement of the dead, etc. He's not a god of death or destruction, but he is a god of the dead and underworld, so dark would be a good descriptor - but dark isn't evil, I would never describe Anubis as evil, it just doesn't fit even if dark does.
    I tend to use dark and evil when I speak on Hecate / Hekate as that is the prevailing cultural / social mindset about her since Roman times and has continued through literature since then. Not that I support that conclusion only that I acknowledge it as part of the cultural imagery that connects her to the crone imagery. Even many pagans who claim to have dropped much of their Christian influences find her dark and evil because of that cultural influences and perhaps a relationship between her and the many evil witch stories such as Hansel and Grettle and the terrible crone. Though I couldn't rule out her association to death and how death tends to scare people and in many ways is still seen as an unknown or final evil which robes them of life. Yet in that capacity evil is not Satan or such but something that serves to end one stage without question or concern.

    Yet if you read what I said about Anubis I said"
    Anubis on the surface death, destruction, decay, etc but again not dark or evil as it is also tied to fertility, fecundity and things of the earth.
    So I suggested he is neither dark nor evil as he was associated with death, destruction and decay all of which are parts of funery motifs and functions. Not that he was dark and evil.

    Still it is interesting I used "evil" 4 times in that response, three with regards to Hecate / Hekate and how she is often seen as the crone witch and once with Anubis. Only one time where I joined Evil / Dark with Hecate and how it was unlikely either aspect could be construed and once with Anubis with Not dark or Evil. Yet an assumption was made of me equating the two together. Though nearly every descriptor I used in every response in this thread so far were death, fertility, fecundity and other such chthonic traits and usages.

    But to me personally having to do with the underworld or death does not make "Dark" a good descriptor it simply continues a blind fear of things dealing with death and the dead. That's why I tend to use Chthonic for that covers all things dealing with being in the earth, gods / goddesses / spirit or death. Fertility, fecundity, blood, etc are also aspects of the dead and earth and most often are associated to earthly gods / goddesses which are usually the dark gods / goddesses speak of.
    I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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      #17
      Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

      Gardenia pretty much summed it up. I don't view Anubis, Kali, Shiva or Hecate as evil, but they do have roles which many people perceive to be so; or at the very least dark. Kali the goddess of death and change, Anubis the protector of the Dead, Shiva the destroyer and Hecate the Goddess of magic. These aspects are not evil, but they are a part of our lives and many people are reluctant to embrace them. Hence "dark". I, for one, find a quiet solace when I look into these parts of our reality and embrace them. Which is why I have an affection for darkness (not evil).

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        #18
        http://www.jstor.org/stable/287716

        Don't know if you use it or not but there are a number of torrents on http://thepiratebay.sx/ that are collections of various books dealing with multiple aspects of Greek & Roman cultures that might interest you. Many are public domain while some I am not sure of.
        I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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          #19
          Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

          The Encyclopedia series as already been suggested, so until more specifics are given, I really can't think of anything else to suggest.

          However, all this talk of "dark" has my attention, so I'd like to throw my two cents in.

          The English language is a very intricate, and somewhat confusing language, that pulls from multiple sources in the effort to communicate ideas. The result is a language that has multiple words to describe the same thing, but each with slight differences, the better to be specific about what is being discussed.

          So when people start saying "Dark" deities/paths/pagans/etc. I have the intense urge to facepalm. Generally, in my experience, when people start talking about "dark"it's because they haven't actually looked at anything beyond the new, cool term they've found. Same with "nocturnal" for that matter as both have had the crap marketed out of them in the name of making a buck, rather than actually giving relevant info.

          Think about it. Night time is PART of the cycle along with....day time. So is the full moon, the new moon, the dark of the moon. And the morning sun, the noon time sun, the late afternoon sun... Get the idea? Focusing on one small part of any of these is missing the larger picture, and it's sets one up for an imbalanced path/practice which will most likely fizzle out because it's meeting very few of a wide range of human needs.

          Now, this is not to say there is anything WRONG with having a preference for night time or what have you. It's that putting it on some kind of spiritual pedestal to the detriment of all else is rather myopic and more than a bit shallow, neither of which is conducive to a lifelong path.
          "The doer alone learneth." -- Friedrich Nietzsche

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            #20
            Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

            To answer the OP: The only book that came to mind: Nocturnal Witchcraft: Magic After Dark. By someone named Konstantinos. This was a book a few of my friends (including my hubby) enjoyed back in high school... I read bits and pieces and it mostly sounded okay from what I remember... but that was years ago, like six or seven. And I haven't really been interested in witchcraft since a few years before I read what I read in that.

            However, since I never get rid of books, I think that one may still be hanging around here somewhere in the 200+ books me and the hubby have... not counting what's on the ereaders... So maybe I'll look for it and see what I think now.
            We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

            I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
            It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
            Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
            -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

            Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

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              #21
              Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

              Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
              http://www.jstor.org/stable/287716

              Don't know if you use it or not but there are a number of torrents on http://thepiratebay.sx/ that are collections of various books dealing with multiple aspects of Greek & Roman cultures that might interest you. Many are public domain while some I am not sure of.
              except for the last book. you can get them on Amazon. com and two of them come in kindle.
              Do Not Meddle In The Affairs Of Dragons, For You Are Crunchy And Good With Kethup.

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                #22
                Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                I don't subscribe to dark or light magic as such but when it comes to shadow work (some may call that dark) I prefer the Goetia as it has a good variety and selection of energies to work with. Some say the Goetia is very dark/deep but I almost find it kinda fluffy and fun.
                My posts are generally sent from my cell fone. Please excuse my brevity, and spelling/grammar errors.

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                  #23
                  Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                  Originally posted by Auseklis View Post
                  I don't subscribe to dark or light magic as such but when it comes to shadow work (some may call that dark) I prefer the Goetia as it has a good variety and selection of energies to work with. Some say the Goetia is very dark/deep but I almost find it kinda fluffy and fun.
                  Just out of curiosity, could you explain what you mean by "fluffy and fun" in regards to the Goetia?

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                    #24
                    Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                    Light and dark always felt like it belonged more to the whole cycle of things than to just certain deities... but that's just me, and I think others probably already stated that.

                    What draws you to the "dark" deities and powers more? How do you consider them dark?

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                      #25
                      Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                      Originally posted by Torey View Post
                      Just out of curiosity, could you explain what you mean by "fluffy and fun" in regards to the Goetia?
                      I mean that I do not see the Goetia as other may do (dark).
                      My posts are generally sent from my cell fone. Please excuse my brevity, and spelling/grammar errors.

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                        #26
                        Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                        Originally posted by Unus Mundus View Post
                        Light and dark always felt like it belonged more to the whole cycle of things than to just certain deities... but that's just me, and I think others probably already stated that.

                        What draws you to the "dark" deities and powers more? How do you consider them dark?
                        Here is what I mean by "Dark".

                        I don't mean evil. Nor do I mean that I'm a fluffy-bunny pagan who only likes dark aspects, because it is "cool". Nor do I think that any deity is truly 100% dark.

                        What I do mean is that I'm attracted to many deities who have been perceived as dark by the general population. Kali, Shiva, Hecate, Anubis, Lucifer (although he isn't really a deity), etc. They are viewed as as dark/"evil", because they have roles that make people uncomfortable. Destruction, death, change; these are every bit as a part of life and nature as rain, light, creation, etc. While many people dismiss these gods because of the roles they have, I embrace them and accept said roles as a part of reality. As another side of the same coin as light.

                        With darkness there is light, and light casts a shadow.

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                          #27
                          Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                          The Tibetan Book of the Dead and The Egyptian Book of the Dead. Perhaps obvious and well known works, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in.
                          I happen to be a devotee of Anubis as well Just made an offering to him last evening.

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                            #28
                            Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                            Originally posted by iflewoverthecuckoosnest View Post
                            The Tibetan Book of the Dead and The Egyptian Book of the Dead. Perhaps obvious and well known works, but I figured I'd throw my two cents in.
                            I happen to be a devotee of Anubis as well Just made an offering to him last evening.
                            There actually are three books of the dead. The third is more of an Native American book that is made up of many stories and excerpts though not as familiar as the first two. Can't recall the title at the moment but will try to find it again.
                            I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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                              #29
                              Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                              Originally posted by GardenOfShadows View Post
                              I'm interested in Nocturnal (and some elements of Dark) Paganism; as well as the myths of civilizations past.

                              What are some books on monsters, creatures, demonology, myths, and "dark" (not black) magic that you recommend?
                              As you've seen from the responses in this thread, using terms like 'dark' throws up all sorts of questions and red flags for people. lol

                              Part of the problem comes from terminology, because the natural inclination is to use a number of terms and path names interchangeably, when that's not strictly accurate. There are several major paths encompassed in 'Dark Paganism', each with a prominent author attached to them. Some people assume they're all flavours of the same thing, but others will be adamant that they are different. Unfortunately there is a lot of posing, appropriation and 'look at how badass and dark I am' in the community in general. But hey. Each to their own.

                              Authors:

                              Konstantinos writes about Nocturnal Witchcraft, which from what I've seen is really just witchcraft at night time, with an emo twist. To me it feels unbalanced and biased, but works for some people. The framework is fairly typical neo-Wiccan, with a focus on cthonic, underworld and 'night time' deities. It focuses on lunar energies to the exclusion of solar energies, and things like that. Konstantinos also writes about things like vampirism, werewolves, and some ceremonial practices. Personally, I'm not a fan of Konstantinos.

                              Raven Digitalis writes about Gothic Paganism/Gothic Witchcraft/Goth Craft. He is actually a part of the Gothic community, and their version of 'dark paganism' is very much coloured by the subculture. That also includes the 'not dark' side of the Gothic subculture... cybergoths, babydolls, and perkygoths are included along with the more traditional goths and metal, industrial and rivet types. It's not neo-Wiccan, so it translates better into it's own kind of balance. It's intrinsically linked with the subculture and lifestyle, so you can't just pick it up if you aren't Gothic of some description, and many pagans don't really get how it works.

                              He also talks about Shadow Magick, which is working with a person's shadow self, divination, trance... anything that delves into the hidden or repressed, basically.

                              Michael W Ford writes about Luciferianism, Vampirism (the psychic kind, not the sanguinarian kind), and working with Adversary deities. He's not particularly well respected in the Demonolatry and Satanism communities, but is a prolific author and has some interesting things to say. He focuses on many of the deities that are worked with in Demonolatry... Demons, Adversary archetypes, ancient Canaanite and Sumerian deities... and also borrows heavily from Crowley, La Vey and such. Some say that he appropriates, but I haven't read all of his work. Half way through one book was enough for me. lol

                              S. Connolly is one of the few published Demonolatry authors, but some of the others are starting to publish on Demonolatry and related practices... M. Delaney and B. Morlan have a title or two out. Though honestly, the entire community is rather niche and specific, and not all that welcoming to newcomers.

                              Michelle Belanger writes about Demonology (as opposed to Demonolatry), Psychic Vampirism, paranormal and general occult topics. She's developed quite a system for Psychic Vampires and is a part of that community.

                              And of course you have the old school authors who really kick started a lot of this. Crowley and La Vey are probably the most well known. Neither of them are particularly easy to read, but they are the forerunners of a lot of the content modern authors are talking about.

                              Topics:

                              If none of the specific paths are quite right, then there are lots of topics that contribute to a 'dark' path. Reading anything and everything you can get on these will give you good groundwork

                              - Demonolatry
                              - Demonology
                              - Theistic Satanism
                              - La Veyan Satanism
                              - any of the Left Hand Paths
                              - ceremonial magick (it's the foundation for the practices of authors such as Crowley)
                              - Necromancy
                              - Shadow work
                              - Divination
                              - Lunar cycles and astrology
                              - blood craft
                              - psychic vampirism (particularly Michelle Belanger)
                              - sanguinarian vampirism
                              - shapeshifting
                              - gothic and emo subcultures or lifestyles
                              - Keys of Solomon (though as a Demonolator I don't advocate the practices)
                              - Luciferianism
                              - Setianism

                              Deities and pantheons:

                              There aren't really any pantheons that are more 'dark' than others. There are those that are focused on more by the paths I've listed above, but aside from the Demonic pantheons they all have their Upperworld and Underworld deities and therefore have both 'dark' and 'light'. My personal take on this is that the mainstream pantheons have been sanitised by being associated with neo-paganism and neo-Wicca. The Greek and Celtic pantheons have their own cthonic, death, chaotic and destructive deities. And the Egyptian and Canaanite pantheons have their love, fertility and civilisation deities. It's a matter of perspective.

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                                #30
                                Re: Books on monsters, demonology, myths, etc.?

                                Originally posted by monsno_leedra View Post
                                There actually are three books of the dead. The third is more of an Native American book that is made up of many stories and excerpts though not as familiar as the first two. Can't recall the title at the moment but will try to find it again.
                                Follow up to my initial post

                                The book near as I recall is The Popol Vuh though occasionally called the Mayan Book of the Dead. It serves as both a creation story but also touches upon the afterlife and similar concepts. There is another book called Mayan Book of the Dead Ceramic Codex that holds some similar information but is more of a academic study of the various codex stories contained in the pictographic carvings or codex's.
                                I'm Only Responsible For What I Say Not For What Or How You Understand!

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