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Thread: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

  1. #21
    Fundamentalist Dumuzi's Avatar
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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    [quote author=Rowanwood link=topic=96.msg6328#msg6328 date=1287930388]
    So I know last time I asked a question, it went badly -- but bear with me here. I was reading a pregnancy board and this question comes directly from that.
    [/quote]

    I'm glad you are asking questions again, and I guess fiiiiiine I'll bear with you

    First, I understand that in most Abrahamic religions, premarital sex is bad and so are babies out of wedlock, especially made with someone not of the same faith. I also know that these often result in shotgun weddings in traditional families or just a lot of shame. But according to this poster, a Muslim family will consider a child created this way an orphan and refuse to acknowledge it's existence.
    Before I go into explaining the Muslim point of view, I'd like to explain why they are behaving that way. They want to punish an innocent baby for the crime of an adult who committed adultery. They wish to hide that crime, but if they acknowledge the baby then they can't hide the crime.

    The original poster was the pregnant woman in question; white and non-Muslim. Several women claiming to be Muslim on the board attacked her for "getting herself pregnant" (even though she'd been in a sexual and romantic relationship with the baby daddy for 3 years) and told her she was at fault.
    BOTH were at fault. I'm assuming the man was Muslim in this situation? If that's the case then there is bigger blame on him because he did something against his religion.

    If she is non Muslim, why are people using Islam against her? Unless, they are just saying that she shouldn't have been with a man who doesn't really want to be with her and would leave her right away. In that case, yes she was wrong, shouldn't have let a man get what he wants from her. It goes both ways though, he shouldn't have been with a woman if he's just gonna leave her in the end.

    Is this true? Is it a religious thing? Or is this maybe more of a cultural thing and this man is "hiding" behind religion as to not have to take responsibility for his part in making this baby?
    You'll notice all this discussion is about the man and the woman. Who's fault is it? What should have been done? blah blah blah

    Who is the only person not to be blamed in this situation? The baby. And who is the only person that will actually be punished in this situation? The baby.

    I've looked this up on several Muslim websites and here's what scholars have to say about this situation:

    - Secondly, as for the child born out of wedlock, like every other child, he or she is born sinless; it does not carry the stigma of the sin of the father or mother or both. A basic principle in Islamic justice is that no one bears the blame for another’s fault. A child born as a result of an illegitimate relationship suffers no adverse discrimination on account of his parents’ sin.


    - “The children born out of wedlock deserve all the care they need as children; thus you should provide them with all the requirements and elements to make them succeed in this life. They are not responsible for the past deeds of their parents.


    - ... and it is not lawful to hold against him (the baby) a crime which he did not commit, so no distinction should be made between him and other children born in wedlock, for that is injustice which Allah has made forbidden, and the discrimination between him and others can make children born from adultery into enemies of their societies, that held them responsible for a crime committed by others and punished them for it, and that is something no religion nor mind can agree with, and Allah knows best.

    (The last one I translated myself)

    So I'd say they are hiding from their culture in refusing to take care of the baby. But you can't hide from Allah.

    Or is the original poster and her attackers just having a good case of internet drama?
    Yep, that too.

    Honestly, I think it's just women fighting each other. They're probably all trolls
    Do they not, then, ponder about the Qur‘an? Had it been from someone other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy. [4:82]

  2. #22
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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    What, if any, is the view of using animal parts in medicine? Specifically something like pig valves for hearts etc?
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  3. #23
    Fundamentalist Dumuzi's Avatar
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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    [quote author=Medusa link=topic=96.msg6406#msg6406 date=1287953679]
    What, if any, is the view of using animal parts in medicine? Specifically something like pig valves for hearts etc?
    [/quote]

    As long as it's life saving or a medical necessity, and there are no other options then it's OK. Remember that even the no pig eating rule has exceptions, like if you are starving and the only food you have is pork. In that case you can eat just enough to save you life.

    He has only forbidden to you dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah. But whoever is forced [by necessity], neither desiring [it] nor transgressing [its limit] - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. [16:115]

    So using pig valves or life saving medication that has alcohol in it and so on becomes an obligation because it will save your life. Allah is the oft-forgiving and the most merciful after all
    Do they not, then, ponder about the Qur‘an? Had it been from someone other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy. [4:82]

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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    Two questions:

    1) Sprouting off the the question about pregnancy out of wedlock: So, I understand that not all Muslim cultures are the same in their treatment of women. As in, I believe it's been indicated that you don't believe in subjugating women as is done in parts of the middle east, but is there any similarity when it comes to issues like adultery, divorce, and widowhood? And if scripture doesn't allow for the way that those people treat women, then how do they justify it?

    2) Sprouting off the medical post: What if something isn't necessarily necessary, like a person who could use a blood transfusion or other transplant, but it isn't necessary to their life? Like it may extend it a little, or make living easier, but it isn't necessary. Especially with modern technology, people can live for some time on dialysis or a pace maker instead of getting a kidney or heart transplant.
    We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

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    It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
    Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
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    Fundamentalist Dumuzi's Avatar
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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    [quote author=Shahaku link=topic=96.msg6651#msg6651 date=1288031736]
    1) Sprouting off the the question about pregnancy out of wedlock: So, I understand that not all Muslim cultures are the same in their treatment of women. As in, I believe it's been indicated that you don't believe in subjugating women as is done in parts of the middle east, but is there any similarity when it comes to issues like adultery, divorce, and widowhood? And if scripture doesn't allow for the way that those people treat women, then how do they justify it?
    [/quote]

    OK, the issue of adultery on one hand is VERY different than the issues of divorce and widowhood on the other hand.

    In Islam adultery is a very big no no. However, the treatment of BOTH males and females who commit adultery is exactly the same. So there is no discrimination here since they are equal no matter what their gender is.

    Divorce is allowed in Islam. It is true that out of all things permissible in Islam divorce is the least liked, but still it is not forbidden. The Qu'ran gave many rights to women who are divorced. Probably, before any other legal system did the same for women. I'll provide you with links if you want to learn more about that. (Since it's a big topic)

    Same goes to a widowed woman. Just a FYI, with the exception of one, all of Muhammad's wives were previously married before him (widowers and one was divorced)

    As for the scripture question. Why do people lie when it goes against scripture? Why do the steal? Why do they cheat? See where I'm going with this?

    2) Sprouting off the medical post: What if something isn't necessarily necessary, like a person who could use a blood transfusion or other transplant, but it isn't necessary to their life? Like it may extend it a little, or make living easier, but it isn't necessary. Especially with modern technology, people can live for some time on dialysis or a pace maker instead of getting a kidney or heart transplant.
    That's why I said life saving or a medical necessity. All those things are allowed.

    Actually, it's not just a matter of something being allowed or not forbidden, but god willing Allah will reward those people that donate blood for example greatly, for helping to save a human's life. According to the Qur'an, if you save the life of one human, it will be like saving the life of all mankind.
    Do they not, then, ponder about the Qur‘an? Had it been from someone other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy. [4:82]

  6. #26
    Sr. Member Gwen's Avatar
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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    The adultery question brings up another one for me: how is adultery defined? I know that Muhammad had multiple wives, so polygamy/polyamory seems to be permitted. What about mutually consensual swinging or polyamory that doesn't involve adding the person permanently to the marriage?
    “If it’s a good idea and it gets you excited, try it, and if it bursts into flames, that’s going to be exciting too. People always ask, ‘What is your greatest failure?’ I always have the same answer — We’re working on it right now, it’s gonna be awesome!”- Jim Coudal

  7. #27
    Fundamentalist Dumuzi's Avatar
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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    [quote author=Gwen link=topic=96.msg6693#msg6693 date=1288035340]
    The adultery question brings up another one for me: how is adultery defined?
    [/quote]

    To make it as simple and as clear as possible:

    Adultery is sex outside of marriage. In other words, in Islam, you can only have sex with someone you are married to.


    Do they not, then, ponder about the Qur‘an? Had it been from someone other than Allah, they would have found in it much discrepancy. [4:82]

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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    I would love the links, but to be a little more specific, I'm not so much interested in a human rights arguement as a philosophical/religious one. It's not that human rights aren't important, it's just that that isn't the information I'm interested in right this moment.
    We are what we are. Nothing more, nothing less. There is good and evil among every kind of people. It's the evil among us who rule now. -Anne Bishop, Daughter of the Blood

    I wondered if he could ever understand that it was a blessing, not a sin, to be graced with more than one love.
    It could be complicated; of course it could be complicated. And it opened one up to the possibility of more pain and loss.
    Still, it was a blessing I would never relinquish. Love, genuine love, was always a cause for joy.
    -Jacqueline Carey, Naamah's Curse

    Service to your fellows is the root of peace.

  9. #29
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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    Sorry if this is a repeat question.

    Is traditional garb required for women who are muslim? Or is it just a cultural thing? For instance, an american woman chose to become muslim, but did not wear the garb, would she be frowned upon by other muslims?
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    Supporter shadow1982's Avatar
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    Re: Questions about Islam (Ask Away!)

    Hello,

    I did a religious history course a few years back that said the word Jihad basically translates into struggle in English, what does the word actually mean to you as a Muslim and to Muslims in general? Do you think it is something which has been misunderstood by people who don't know much about Islam, or corrupted by fundamentalists?

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