How come most religions don't try to convert?

[sirz345]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

In their religion they are taught you have to be this religion to get into heaven. Taoists, Buddhists, Jews, Hindus, etc. are taught more that you should be a good person than a practitioner of that religion, although they believe the message of their religion to be true you don't necessarily have to follow it to get into heaven.

[Orecha]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

Judaism was never into converting and neither was Buddhism or Taoism.

Not true. While these religions don't focus on proselytism today, both Judaism and Buddhism were major proselytizing religions in antiquity (not sure about Taoism).

Israelite religion (though a precursor to actual "Judaism") sought converts and on several occasions during the Later Kingdom Period even forced conversion upon an entire population. Once Judaism truly began under the Hasmoneans, forced conversions were commonplace (with "Hellenizers" being forced to chose conversion to Hasmonean Judaism or death). Pharisees (an early sect of Judaism that evolved into modern Rabbinic Judaism) were hungry for converts, and proselytized in market places, forums, and even public toilets throughout the Roman Empire (there are numerous Roman records supporting this).

Buddhism has had its share of forced conversions as well, beginning with the early empire of Ashoka. After he realized that forced conversion wasn't really "Buddhist," he began sending missionaries all over the world, as far as even the Roman Republic. The Mongolian Khanate, after adopting Buddhism, began with forced conversion before moving into heavy missionary practice as well.

As far as other religions go: Hellenic religion under Alexander the Great and his successors (especially the Seleucids) was often forced upon their subjects, and heavily proselytized when not forced. Roman religion, under the Empire, was spread via imperial missionaries as well as often by the point of a sword. Shinto has forced conversion of small populations in the past as well as pushed missionary efforts, even into mainland China at one point. Even atheism and antitheism today are regularly proselytized via the internet as well as in person, though they generally don't view their efforts as proselytism (I've heard "educating" and "enlightening the ignorant masses" used).

So, yes, many religions the world over have had periods of proselytism, though your point about the lengths that Christianity and Islam go through is valid. I don't have a real answer as for why these two religions are so adamant about the entire world being just like them (except maybe "misery loves company"), but I think that with Christianity and Islam it's a combination of the relative "youth" of these faiths and their view of the earth as "God's Kingdom" that really push their conversion efforts to new extremes unlike the previous efforts of historical religions.

[Ventus]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

Religions that convert others are the ones that teach that you must save other people who don't follow the same path in order to save them. The religions that have a punishment for not believing in that certain path.

While the others don't teach that you are punished if you simply don't believe in something certain.
That's my short and sweet opinion on this.

[Alienist]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

Not true. While these religions don't focus on proselytism today, both Judaism and Buddhism were major proselytizing religions in antiquity (not sure about Taoism).

Israelite religion (though a precursor to actual "Judaism") sought converts and on several occasions during the Later Kingdom Period even forced conversion upon an entire population. Once Judaism truly began under the Hasmoneans, forced conversions were commonplace (with "Hellenizers" being forced to chose conversion to Hasmonean Judaism or death). Pharisees (an early sect of Judaism that evolved into modern Rabbinic Judaism) were hungry for converts, and proselytized in market places, forums, and even public toilets throughout the Roman Empire (there are numerous Roman records supporting this).

Buddhism has had its share of forced conversions as well, beginning with the early empire of Ashoka. After he realized that forced conversion wasn't really "Buddhist," he began sending missionaries all over the world, as far as even the Roman Republic. The Mongolian Khanate, after adopting Buddhism, began with forced conversion before moving into heavy missionary practice as well.

As far as other religions go: Hellenic religion under Alexander the Great and his successors (especially the Seleucids) was often forced upon their subjects, and heavily proselytized when not forced. Roman religion, under the Empire, was spread via imperial missionaries as well as often by the point of a sword. Shinto has forced conversion of small populations in the past as well as pushed missionary efforts, even into mainland China at one point. Even atheism and antitheism today are regularly proselytized via the internet as well as in person, though they generally don't view their efforts as proselytism (I've heard "educating" and "enlightening the ignorant masses" used).

So, yes, many religions the world over have had periods of proselytism, though your point about the lengths that Christianity and Islam go through is valid. I don't have a real answer as for why these two religions are so adamant about the entire world being just like them (except maybe "misery loves company"), but I think that with Christianity and Islam it's a combination of the relative "youth" of these faiths and their view of the earth as "God's Kingdom" that really push their conversion efforts to new extremes unlike the previous efforts of historical religions.

I will give you credit that they have had forced conversions but it's exactly part of their doctrine and of course Jews and Buddhists certainly don't try convert today. Jews are usually well known for keeping to themselves but a lot of religions have had their forced conversion days.

[Gleb]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

I will give you credit that they have had forced conversions but it's exactly part of their doctrine and of course Jews and Buddhists certainly don't try convert today. Jews are usually well known for keeping to themselves but a lot of religions have had their forced conversion days.

I don't know about Christianity, but I learn in a religious-Jewish high school (only because of the high level of education), and the teachers definitely do try to convert students to Judaism and to be honest, this freaks me out. Students may keep resisting, but is it legal for teachers to try to convert?

[Orecha]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

I will give you credit that they have had forced conversions but it's exactly part of their doctrine and of course Jews and Buddhists certainly don't try convert today. Jews are usually well known for keeping to themselves but a lot of religions have had their forced conversion days.

There are actually quite a few Jewish groups invested in proselytizing. While many are groups like Chabad, who seek converts to their particular brand of Judaism (Lubavitcher Chasidic Orthodox) from "ethnic Jews" who are atheists, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, pagans, or even Reform or Conservative Jews, there are other groups who seek out new converts from populations with no connection to Judaism. BeJewish.org, for example, is one such organization, and there are many others (if you want examples, let me know). These are, of course, by and large, right-wing fundamentalist groups connected largely to some sub-branch of Orthodox Judaism, so people raised in Reform or Conservative environments (or other more recent liberal groups) have little or no experience with this. Also, it is true that on the radical right there are several Jewish groups that advocate insular and isolationist communities, but these are actually a far smaller minority than the proselytizers.

As far as Buddhism goes, there are also numerous groups actively engaged in proselytism today (the Dalit movement, for example). In the west, most average Joes are familiar with Tibetan Buddhism and the Dalai Lama. Yes, it is true that the Dalai Lama discourages proselytism, but contrary to popular belief, he is head of only the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism (not all of Buddhism...), which is a subsect of Tibetan Buddhism, which is already a minority sect itself.

I don't know about Christianity, but I learn in a religious-Jewish high school (only because of the high level of education), and the teachers definitely do try to convert students to Judaism and to be honest, this freaks me out. Students may keep resisting, but is it legal for teachers to try to convert?

In a Jewish school? Yep. 100% legal in the US, at least. As a private school run by a religious institution, it can teach pretty much whatever it wants about religion. I know of 3 religious high schools that, when teaching the state required section on evolution, preface it with a segment on creationism from their particular religious slant. Every religiously associated private school I know also requires public prayer and their equivalent of scriptural study (a high school down the street from me requires 2 hours of Talmud study, in class, every day). This happens all of the time, and Christian schools do the same.

[Alienist]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

It is actually interesting others have done conversions besides Christianity and Islam. I never said that others didn't try to convert. Almost every religion you can think of has done conversions one way or another but it strikes me as weird since Christianity and Islam do more conversions than any other religion and it's probably because they are universal religions and not ethnic religions.

[Keldorn]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

I "Think" that in the conversion field of Christian and Islam there seems to be if you "Save" someone you rack up points toward going to "Heaven" I will not say that I actually know this to be true,but I seem to remember something like "Build up your treasures in heaven" thing from when I was growing up.

Shouldn't this be effectively irrelevant to most Prodestant doctrines. I thought one of their big fights with Catholocism was the whole issue of "saved, not through acts but through faith alone".

Spreading their faith is still at the end of the day an act.

[thalassa]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

When I look at another religion, I try to do it in the same way that I look at history or anthropology--on its own terms--specifically the terms of its individual denomination or tradition, not on mine.

...the Reformation *did* happen nearly 500 years ago. A lot has changed.

[Gleb]

Re: How come most religions don't try to convert?

Ok, so outside of a religious school it's silly to try to convert someone in my opinion. I understand the "the more followers the better" thing in many reigions, but everyone has his/her own reality. Trying to convert will only, possibly, cause people to eschew the religion.

Plus, people tend to look first on the religion itself, before looking at what it does and its followers.
For instance, many people may say something like: "Ah, you are pagan (or any other less spread faith), you will go to hell / you worhip Satan".

When my classmate heard of something like that started yelling: "Burn the witch!". I am not sure what was that, but I didn't even try to change his opinion. It's no use with such people.