Controversy Over Blood Sacrifice

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

The animal isn't giving up it's life. The animal is having it's life taken.

I don't have a problem with people killing animals for food, but y'know, call a spade a spade.

Tomato Tahmato *shrugs* The end result is it's dead for human use.

[Quetzal]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

It's the difference between suicide and murder, not just a difference in words. The end result is the same, but the method is totally different and should be seen differently.

[Unus Mundus]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

The animal isn't giving up it's life. The animal is having it's life taken.

I don't have a problem with people killing animals for food, but y'know, call a spade a spade.

As stated earlier, many traditions sacrifice the animal and then promptly eat it afterwords. Its not wasted, its food with a special "thanks" behind it in many cases.

[Quetzal]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

As stated earlier, many traditions sacrifice the animal and then promptly eat it afterwords. Its not wasted, its food with a special "thanks" behind it in many cases.

I'm sure the dead critter really appreciates the thanks. Like I said, I don't have a problem with killing for food. But sacrifice implies choice. There is no choice in animal killing. Just call it what it is. Killing, not sacrifice.

[Unus Mundus]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

I'm sure the dead critter really appreciates the thanks. Like I said, I don't have a problem with killing for food. But sacrifice implies choice. There is no choice in animal killing. Just call it what it is. Killing, not sacrifice.

Choice? No, the animal isn't sacrificing itself, so there is no choice. However, by sacrifice we would mean giving of the soul or "power" of the animal's spirit to the deity before consuming the flesh of said animal. One could literally do it with a plant as well, I'm not arguing for or against animal sacrifice as a whole, I'm just saying that by your argument, killing and sacrificing the "soul" of your food is worse than just killing to eat your food. That I don't agree with.

[Auseklis]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

An interesting thread. So, I am guessing human sacrifice is ok then? Humans are an animal too and if we are talking about tradition then humans were also sacrificed as part of many traditions. Human sacrifice is still carried out in many countries around the world to this day.

[Quetzal]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

Does the animal know that it's soul is being given to your deity? As I see it, that soul is not yours to give. I'm not arguing against it. If ya wanna do a little prayer or a thanks before eating it's flesh, do so. Just don't act as if the animal about to be eaten is being done a favour. Your gods are not it's gods.

For the record, I don't like the eating of meat, "sacrifice" or otherwise. It's not something I fight against, or argue tooth and nail against (because frankly, I'm not gonna get anywhere with that even if I wanted to). I'm just sharing my opinion, and that opinion is that killing an animal and giving it's soul to god/s is more akin to theft than sacrifice. It's taking something that doesn't belong to you.

Addendum: I was using the word you to mean people in general that do these sacrifices. What you do as an individual is none of my business.

An interesting thread. So, I am guessing human sacrifice is ok then? Humans are an animal too and if we are talking about tradition then humans were also sacrificed as part of many traditions. Human sacrifice is still carried out in many countries around the world to this day.

I'm fine with human sacrifice if the person is sacrificing themselves. Choice makes all the difference in this for me. Do what you want to yourself, just leave everyone else (human or not) alone.

[Unus Mundus]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

An interesting thread. So, I am guessing human sacrifice is ok then? Humans are an animal too and if we are talking about tradition then humans were also sacrificed as part of many traditions. Human sacrifice is still carried out in many countries around the world to this day.

Well, I see you are in passive aggressive mode, so to that I apply cold logic. Most people wouldn't eat their human sacrifice after killing them, thus in that way it is an immoral waste of food and to be opposed.

Does the animal know that it's soul is being given to your deity? As I see it, that soul is not yours to give. I'm not arguing against it. If ya wanna do a little prayer or a thanks before eating it's flesh, do so. Just don't act as if the animal about to be eaten is being done a favour. Your gods are not it's gods.

For the record, I don't like the eating of meat, "sacrifice" or otherwise. It's not something I fight against, or argue tooth and nail against (because frankly, I'm not gonna get anywhere with that even if I wanted to). I'm just sharing my opinion, and that opinion is that killing an animal and giving it's soul to god/s is more akin to theft than sacrifice. It's taking something that doesn't belong to you.

Addendum: I was using the word you to mean people in general that do these sacrifices. What you do as an individual is none of my business.

I'm not all that for meat myself, but the arguments being made here are strange. I've never been interested in doing living sacrifices, and I don't do them with my own gods. I'm much more for offering thanks through bread, or even in wine or something along those lines.

Honestly, although I could argue about semantics of the meaning of sacrifice, or about whether a soul is even truly given to deities, or if it is merely the "gesture of giving" that the deities appreciate (since I honestly don't believe that a god must be nourished by our petty food sources), but I feel if I push further I'll bring down swift justice upon myself from someone or another, so for now I withdraw from the argument.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

It's the difference between suicide and murder, not just a difference in words. The end result is the same, but the method is totally different and should be seen differently.

If you REALLY want to get hung up on that and continue to ignore the point about awareness of where one's meal, knock yourself out.

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An interesting thread. So, I am guessing human sacrifice is ok then?

Do you eat humans?

[Auseklis]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

Do you eat humans?

Sacrifice isn't necessarily about devouring the life taken. Some may but it is not always the case. Having said that in some parts of the world the sacrifice of humans is done for a food source and/or ritual.

Unus Mundus ... no I am not in a passive aggressive mode... it is a simple question for those who believe in animal sacrifice. My point being that humans are still another animal in nature so if an individual agrees with animal sacrifice then they must agree with human sacrifice too?

[Quetzal]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

If you REALLY want to get hung up on that and continue to ignore the point about awareness of where one's meal, knock yourself out.

Don't get me wrong, you should definitely know where your food comes from. You should just also accept what your actions are. The term sacrifice is just self-aggrandizement.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

Sacrifice isn't necessarily about devouring the life taken.

No it is isn't. But the reason people gave up animals for sacrifice is because that was something that would have otherwise appeared on the dinner table in one form or another. Thus the giving up of it WAS a sacrifice.

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The term sacrifice is just self-aggrandizement.

Why? Because if what I give up means I don't get meat for the month, I'd call that a sarcifice.

[Quetzal]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

Why? Because if what I give up means I don't get meat for the month, I'd call that a sarcifice.

Did you not JUST say that the meat would be eaten anyway? That sacrificing something and then not eating it would be a waste? You're contradicting yourself.

[monsno_leedra]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

An interesting thread. So, I am guessing human sacrifice is ok then? Humans are an animal too and if we are talking about tradition then humans were also sacrificed as part of many traditions. Human sacrifice is still carried out in many countries around the world to this day.

Potentially I suppose one could say human sacrifice is legitimate in certain places. For me personally the only goddess I follow who ever required it later changed her mind if one goes by the evolution of blood offerings and sacrifice to Artemis. So the blood offerings / sacrifice is still present but the complete sacrifice of human lives was ended. Well unless one considers total devotion and dedication might be viewed as total sacrifice of life and limb in the name of their god / goddess or God.

[Vigdisdotter]

Re: Controversy over Blood Sacrifice

Did you not JUST say that the meat would be eaten anyway?

Never said it would be by me.

In ancient times it would have gone to the temple/priests.

In modern times it goes to feed ALL attendees, so if I was attending I MIGHT get a small portion (though personally I think it's pretty gauche to eat what you bring yourself rather than what others bring).